How much does my tenant owe me?

[Golaz]

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

That isnt how deposits work. OP cannot prove there is missing rent, because there isnt any.

Thank you. 👍🏻 this thread has clarified for me that she only owes me until the day she gives keys back and does not need to give one month notice

Apparently most of the people on this thread think I should be grateful she’s cleaning up after herself 🤣. I’m obviously paying no attention to that

Have i missed something? Did the OP state she’d owned the home “several years”?

I'm a landlord. Technically she owes you the money. However as you terminated the contract and the housing market is so tough at the market, if I could afford it I would let her off the two weeks.

if it’s not in a deposit protection scheme then OP is screwed so no that’s not an option

I did say’ if it’s part of the contract ‘
Landlords can add things to a contract.

But you gave HER notice! She doesn't have to give you notice at all. Be thankful she has found somewhere quickly and is coming back to clean up. Talk about greedy...

I’d still let her off a couple of weeks. It’s really tough out there, and we as landlords do own property, and she does not, and rents are crazy with very few places.

I know landlord is being a business, but go on - be nice to your tenant just for a couple of weeks money!

Presumably you have her bond and can take missing rent out of that?

If it's not in a protection scheme then that is illegal.

You've asked her to leave then are moaning she's leaving too soon? You sound awful.

Worrying that a LL doesn’t know this stuff. And I speak as a LL.

Surely you’d check-it out BEFORE giving notice, using at worst a forum for Landlords, rather than general MN site where often it’s the blind leading the blind.

As a LL, there are the legal requirements which must always be met. And then additionally, there is being sensible and treating people decently, which is always a very good idea too. You want and benefit from the goodwill of tenants and therefore need to show them some of that too.

In this scenario, personally, I’d have thanked the tenant for being willing and able to vacate before the date I’d given, and in that scenario, I’d probably say I’d refund the last week or so (beyond the usual rent cut off) if they vacated when they said they would.

OP doesn’t seem to realise how tenants often don’t vacate when they say they will, and actually can choose not to vacate by the end of notice period and that then legal processes have to occur to evict. It is a tenant’s legal right to avail themselves of this process and remain. It can make things very difficult for a LL. So, given you’re already serving notice which is pretty annoying, although perfectly legal, and given the tenant is being helpful and has offered a date sooner than the last, I’d be looking to acknowledge this and encourage it to actually happen by offering to return the last week of rent as a token of appreciation. Such a gesture can lead to goodwill, a cleaner flat etc etc.

I’d also say, that if a tenant has been there for a decent period of time, when it comes to them moving out, unless there was genuine serious damage, I would not be looking to deduct from the deposit for minor things. Some people report LLs wanting to withhold parts of deposit for dust on top of wardrobes, dirty windows etc. Perhaos with a short term let or someone who hasn’t paid their rent etc, you’d want to insist on the letter of the contract regarding deposit returns, but if someone has been there for 3 or 4 years and paid tens of thousands in rent, I’d be returning their full deposit sharpish and disregarding most things and just considering them fair wear and tear, even if they might be a bit more than that.

Yes the problem is I have my own rent to pay- until summer. I didn’t want to feel like I had to lose out on several hundred pounds that she owed me just to be nice , because I can’t really afford that kind of generosity towards someone I don’t even have a personal relationship with. HOWEVER this thread has clarified to me that she only owes me until she gives the keys back, as I already gave notice and she can leave any time within that period without giving notice.

Give her a chance you tightwad.

It should be March 4th as per the contract.

My understanding of the situation is …. You have given her notice to leave which will cover the 4 week period agreed by both in the tenancy.
You will not have recourse on this (as far as I am aware - was previously a landlord).

Legally, as the property isn’t cleaned or able to pictured / rent / live in until 20th, that she hasn’t officially moved out until 20th. You could charge these additional 2 days but I’d be quite aggrieved at this if I was the tenant (and some folk poke holes in walls, fish in curtain poles, leave radiators leaking etc - it wouldn’t be worth it to me ……).

It is perhaps a lesson learnt as you will now have to cover this yourself until the summer - but could have left it till now to give tenant notice and they may not have found anywhere by April. One of the many reasons we sold up and stopped renting out!

OP you're not giving up several hundreds of pounds. You wanted her gone, you gave her notice and she is leaving. Be thankful she is cleaning up and going without a fuss! I think you're taking the mick by expecting her to pay beyond her stay. She's actually being really reasonable and it sounds like you're trying to squeeze money out of her before she leaves and we're expecting her to stay until it was convenient for you to have her leave.

This.
You've served notice, whys should she give you notice?

If she was leaving mid month and you hadn't served notice then yes, she would need to give you/pay for a month but that's not what's happened.

Take one week if she agrees to pay , if not then count your blessings and give her a good reference

I would if she owned that notice period under the contract; I am now clear that she only owes me until she returns the keys.

I didn’t expect her to leave exactly when it was convenient for me, I was well aware she might leave sooner, but I thought that she needed to give one month of notice.

I do definitely expect her to clean up after herself- luckily she agrees with that.

*owed not owned

If the lease says

1. landlord gives two months’ notice
2. tenant gives 1 month’s notice then that is what each party is required to do and the other party is entitled to.

Therefore you would be entitled to one months’ notice from and including the date the tenant serves you notice. You are able to waive your entitlement and allow her to only pay to the 20th when the flat is finally vacated and keys are returned.

Presumably the lease requires the flat to be left in a clean and tidy condition and you have a security deposit to return to the tenant (and/or deduct cleaning fee from as necessary if it isn’t cleaned) also.

She could give you one months notice tomorrow 11th February and leave on 11th march or negotiate for an extra week until 18th march.
Notice should run from contract date not a date specified by you. It sounds dlike you didn't even serve notice properly.

Legal answer is that she owes rent for full rental period for every part of a rental period she remains in occupation after notice (including leaving possessions and keeping her keys to come and go). Rental period runs from 11th of month to 10th of next month. You have to give 2 months notice before next rent period but she only has to give 1 month before next rent period so she can truncate the notice period for which she will owe rent quite correctly in this way.

Had she relied on your notice date (22 jan) the 2 month notice period runs from 11 Feb to 10 April and she'd owe rent for those full months even if she left earlier.

However she has given notice on 4 Feb so the notice period runs 11 Feb to 10 March and she owes the full months rent for that period.

In reality (rather than the strictly legal position) do what feels fair and reasonable which might be letting her off any rent for the period after 11 Feb even if she's coming and going a few more days or propose to charge a pro rata rent per day she wants to remain in physical occupation rather than insist on the full rent period the lease provides for, provided she leaves when she says. Keeping things amicable is more likely to see her stick to her word and keep you accurately informed which is worth a lot! Evicting residential tenants is time consuming and expensive and they don't usually pay rent in the meantime!

I think you've had some harsh responses though. You aren't obliged to let a tenant live there for free and rent you are legally entitled to is not extortion!

I'm a solicitor by the way.

You sound like a piece of work. Utterly awful!

I’m a landlord. I believe this to be correct. www.legislate.tech/questions/can-a-tenant-leave-before-the-end-of-their-section-21. Ie that your tenant should pay you until 10th. However, I would just let it go. You’ve had a good paying tenant for a number of years and don’t actually appreciate how lucky you’ve been, especially during the pandemic when many tenants either couldn’t pay and a few abused the system. I had one tenant, who abused the system by moving in during covid and simply not paying. I was then in a position of having to wait 6 months of no income on the property before serving a section 8. I could then start the eviction process and wait for a court date, during which time the tenant continued to be housed for free whilst my obligations as a landlord didn’t cease. I sighed in relief when after receiving the possession order he had vacated the house despite there being furniture, various clothing and rubbish in the house and garage. It had not been cleaned at all and in a filthy state but crucially with only minor damage.

A good landlord will not insist their tenant pays them until the 10th as morally it’s reprehensible. You’ve had your home looked after for a while, generating income and allowing you to live elsewhere then is returning the property to you in a timely manner. Your tenant should pay until the property is cleaned and the keys handed back.

I hope you’ve done this all by the book including securing the deposit, issuing gas safety certificates, keeping up to date electrical safety checks, installing smoke annd Co2 detectors correctly and so forth. If you haven’t, just quietly allow your tenant to pay up until 18th.