How much does my tenant owe me?

[Golaz]

Hi all,

I’ve had a tenant in my flat on for a few years. She’s been on a rolling contract since the first six months. She normally pays rent on the 11th of the month for the month ahead.

I gave her notice on 22nd January, that I would need the flat back by 16th April. (Under a rolling contract I need to give 2 months notice, but I wanted to let her know earlier rather than later, to give her some time to sort something).

On the 4th February she informed me she had found somewhere and would be moving out probably around the middle of February. I followed up today and asked if she had a date. She told me yes- she’s moving out on the 18th and will return on the 20th to clean the place.

How much rent does she owe me? She’s already paid until the 11th. She seems to think she only needs to pay for an extra week until the 18th , but in the rolling contract she’s supposed to give me one months notice so I feel like she should pay until the 4th March.

AIBU?

I thought that she should expect to give me 1 months notice of when she was leaving, despite the section 21, so I was expecting her to pay until 4th March.
It appears that legally that is probably correct but that it is not conventionally insisted upon, as not considered fair/ common decency. So I have accepted i WBU and she pays until she moves out.

So once again, you thought, you expected, plus it ‘appears legally’.

However I am glad you have decided to listen to the landlords on here and do the decent thing, which is she pays up to the 20th. Being a landlord is a business, but it involves human beings and housing. Flexibility and consideration is something I have found as a landlord works to everyone’s benefit. You will feel better fir your decision and best of luck with your move. You could try air B&B or a very short term tenancy to fill the financial void. All landlords should have put aside an amount to cover voids or unexpected expenses.

I did read the thread, including your dismissal of replies that didn’t agree with what you proposed to do.

Whether you seek to represent landlords or not your actions reflect on all of us. You came here for advice, which you’ve received, you initially didn’t like it, but you are now prepared to do the decent thing. Which reflects well on you.

So once again, you thought, you expected plus it “appears legally”

Yes, that is what I thought- as stated In my OP.; But when I realised her expectations were different I came here to ask for advice on what was reasonable.

Thanks for your advice, I do agree with your points. Air b&b is a good idea, although not sure I could manage the logistics. Will have a think 👍🏻

I think contractually she owes until 4th March, but you could be nice and only charge until keys are returned if she's been a good tenant?

I wasn’t dismissive, I was grateful for many helpful replies, whether they were in line with my original perspective or not- that’s why I came asking for advice.

There were many things said which I thought were ridiculous and rude and totally off the mark, but I expected nothing less from Aibu 🙈😅.

There has been a lot of fairly wild projection going on, but I get it because the housing situation in this country sucks.
I don’t consider myself to be representing anyone other than myself, and Im ok with how I’ve done that.

Even if the tenant isn't there physically but her belongings are the judge would see her as living there until her belongings are completely gone. So only charge her rent until her belongings are completely gone as she wouldn't be living there once they are.

@Golaz I think part of what is bothering you is that while you want to be fair to your tenant, you also want to be fair to yourself.

You can define "fair" to yourself as maximising that to which you are commercially and legally entitled as per the contract and the law, or you can define it as being commercially pragmatic, which sometimes means being a little bit more than fair and settling for a little bit less than your legal entitlement in order to get what is more important for yourself.

My vote would be for "commercially pragmatic" in your case. Given that your highest priority is getting the place back for April 16th, I would fully concur with most of the PPs who are saying, regardless of whether you could or could not legally demand rental payment for a longer period, it is probably in your best interest to let it go.

Under applicable law, I believe that the tenant could do various things to stay in the flat for longer, if she so chooses. She could potentially have tried to stay until after no fault evictions stop being allowed, which could make it very difficult or even impossible to get your place back for your own use. In fact they might still be legally able to do that. So I would also concur with previous posters who advise making absolutely sure you have dotted the "I"s and crossed the "T"s for getting the tenant out, perhaps even paying for an hour of legal advice, and then I would try not to do anything else that might make her reconsider her willingness to move out rather than using her various legal means of staying in the property for longer.

If there is a small void period before you move back in then perhaps you could put that to good use by doing any minor refurbishments that might be needed to make it a nice home for yourself very often a place that has been lived in could benefit from a new coat of paint, or with some carpet changes and that is much easier with an empty place!

You served a section 21 notice. This is not a notice to quit, it tells the tenant the date you'd like the property back. But if the tenant hadn't found somewhere else, she could have stayed past that date, and you would have had to go to court to get an eviction notice. You couldn't have just turned up on 16 April and turfed her out.

By law, your tenant still needs to give a month's notice. That can be given at any time, it does not have to be linked to the rental payment date. She's given you two weeks notice. It's up to you if you pursue her for the unpaid rent, from 20 Feb (when she hands the keys back) to 4 Mar. Bearing in mind if she doesn't pay up, you'd have to take her to court.

I still don’t think she has “done me a favour” by honouring the terms of the contract to which we both mutually and freely agreed
I think she’s behaved in a decent way and def want to do the same in return

Nothing could be fairer, OP, and FWIW I think you'vee made the right decision for you both

I agree with a PP though that "grateful" is a bit off the mark when it comes to someone honouring an agreement they've chosen to enter into; for me "relieved" would be closer, but I recognise it's unlikely to be a widespread view on here

I agree that the OP should be clear on her legal responsibilities and not be asking for advice on this type of forum. My issue is with the number of people who are answering without a clue of the actual answer. There are a lot of comments about ‘doing the right thing because OP chose to make her homeless’.

Op I think you are making the smart decision not rocking the boat. You could encounter so many more problems by forcing a few weeks rent.

on a side note if you were an accidental landlord have you made sure the deposit was in a protected scheme. This is really important. You need to ensure the deposit is returned within ten days as otherwise you really could be in trouble.

And yet you, also, were giving an answer whilst saying you don't know the answer.

Deregulation of the rental market in England and Wales has led to so many bad and incompetent hobby landlords that I long since reached the point of thinking that any would be LL should be given a choice - do the homework and pass a basic competency test or pay a professional to manage the property (with the budget to do so effectively).

Also demonstrate that there is enough money in the business to run it properly. That includes cashflow to manage repairs, maintain the building and manage short periods between lets where there is no rent.

This isn't a business making cakes or providing some elective service - if you choose to go into business providing the roof over peoples' heads, those people deserve to know the LL is competent contractually and financially.

I'm a landlord. I wouldn't be quibbling over rent for an extra few weeks if you're getting the property back clean and in good condition, especially as you'd already served notice. It'll cost you more financially and in stress than it's worth.

I’m not a landlord but I think you’ve made the right decision. Far better to part on amicable terms with a clean flat.
You gave her ample notice that she hasn’t ended up needing, but that’s far better than her not vacating by mid-April Perhaps you and your children could move in slightly sooner-if you’re giving notice on your current home, could you do so sooner? Not trying to pry, just thinking of ways to make the situation work. Good luck with your move.💐

@Zuma76
There are a lot of comments about ‘doing the right thing because OP chose to make her homeless’.
A tenant who appears to have paid the rent on time for 'a few years' has been given notice to vacate the premises.
I'm not a landlord and don't know what they expect as void periods, but any loss of income across 'a few years' is solely due to the OP's choices.
Doing the right thing seems by far the most sensible thing to do.

My DH has just finally been able to evict a tenant owing 7k in unpaid rent, so just count your lucky stars she’s going. Landlords haven’t got a leg to stand on.

I don’t see that as a gotcha. If the tenant did this and op has a decent inventory signed by the tenant stating the cleanliness of the room and each item therein, op could try to claim cleaning costs against the tenant’s deposit.

As is, the tenant is seeking a very smooth transition. The only thing op should do now is to inform her she should be paying up until the cleaning is complete.

She pays you until the day she hands the keys back so 11th to the 20th of that is when she want to return to clean. Inspection, meter readings, photos on the 20th.

Landlords... you treat your tenants as cash cows and then turn around and claim you're providing a service.

Or try to say you're a 'nice landlord'... NO such thing.

She's been a good tenant historically just be nice and let her find a place to live, given that you've just taken it away.

As someone who used to rent for years, she's normally need to give you 28 calendar days notice. So add 28 days to the 4th of February and that's her notice period.
Saying that....since she was informed she was needed to be out by a certain date, it's possible that the 28 days notice wouldn't apply to her anymore? I'd Google this.

I posted an almost identical question earlier this week. If you’ve served a s21 my understanding is the tenant can leave at amy point within that period, so she owes you until the date she is leaving.

I think as you have already given her notice - she doesn’t need to give you two months but should pay up until she hands over keys after the clean.

she had to find another property and may not have been able to delay the move in date as it is quite difficult to secure rental properties at the moment - people won’t wait.

My tenant was evicted owing £5 k rent and having caused £10 k worth of damage.
And I still have to let him return for his belongings when he can be bothered even though I’ve got a proper torts notice in place.
I am selling my property now, it’s a family sized home but as long as the law allows someone like him to stay 8 months after his notice period then good LL’s will just sell or leave their property empty and good tenants will be chasing fewer homes and only dodgy LL’s will exist.
Cash cows! Rubbish.

Yeh mine also cost me about that much. Very little damage. This was unpaid rent and solicitor / court fees.