To feel hopeless about male violence

[brujarosada]

Everywhere I turn I see news stories where it's implicitly understood that a man harmed a woman. An obvious family annhilator? Definitely the husband. Woman disappears while out? Obviously a man.

I know that this is nothing new, but it feels so inevitable and hopeless. Women getting angry gets some attention sometimes (like with Sarah Everard). But there's no real change and toxic masculinity seems to be ever more celebrated - for example, there's currently a story in The Guardian about an influencer who is capturing the imagination of secondary school boys everywhere.

Am I wrong to feel so hopeless? Is there some sort of inspiring change that I am missing?

You realise most missing women don’t make the press? Just like most of our rapes and murders don’t either.

Honestly I’ve seen too many stories of people (men and women) beaten and stabbed for intervening. I personally wouldn’t risk it.

you don't have to step in. You can call the police. And on other occasions where mates are saying things? Speak to them. Before it escalates. Your mate beats his gf? check on her, call the police. Your mate gets beligerant when he's drunk - tell him to pack it in before he gets to that stage.

There is so much more people, partlicularly men since many men don't listen to women, can do before it gets to "oh i might get stabbed". Or is that just: well i might get stabbed so i'll do absolutely fuck all?

This. It wasn’t until I was in my 40s that I’ve become so angry about the number of women killed every week. Before that I just did not know or probably just accepted it as boys will be boys behaviour. Terrible I know. But I was brought up to admire and look after men.

This

In context here, but it's not easy for good men (yeah diddums). Violent or aggressive men who do stuff openly in public are wired to protect their egos and will do almost anything to save face. So if confronted by some mild mannered man who's trying to do the right thing by women, he'll be on the receiving end of a beating, unless other people step up and there's safety in numbers.

But people don't step in, because no-one ever knows if the perpetrator might be carrying. Then you're falling into the 'disposable male' trap by basically putting good men in potential harm, just to satisfy your belief that good men step up.

Sadly most truly decent men aren't like Jason Statham, which would be off-putting for anyone in public, but you don't solve violence with more violence so what we're asking for is a visual deterrent that isn't violent. That's as rare as rocking horse shit.

So all you're really left with is decent men calling out stuff between mates or at work. This doesn't really solve the issue that the OP is fearful of.

Yes and you're the one who started writing nonsense about women being whiter than white.

Here, have your 🙄 with bells on 😂

Oh stop it, there’s no comparison to be made.

YANBU and listening to the stories my 14 year old dd tells me about the boys in her year and their opinions and attitudes towards girls frankly scares the hell out of me especially as so many girls her age accept these boys attitudes towards girls as being normal.
The likes of Andrew Tate and other misogynistic arseholes are fuelling this belief that girls and women are ‘up for it’ and will do what they are told.

I didn't see it either growing up. I went to a mixed school, so I saw myself having the same opportunities as the boys. I got a job in a traditionally male industry, and got paid a man's wage.

Of course, things changed and my eyes were opened once I became pregnant. Maternity allowance and going back to work part time. Working and doing everything at home. The mental load, the house work, the night feeds. Abused financially, emotionally, sexually, physically by my ex.

I now have a chronic health condition, and here I am at the bottom of the heap. A divorced, disabled single mother, relying on universal credit. I definitely see the inequalities now. I am raising 2 sons, and trying my best to have them check their privilege, and treat women with respect.

Two women a week is a shocking statistic
😥

Ugh, I’m so sick of posters jumping in with this “women are just as bad” shit. I mean statistics prove it’s bullshit yet women like you still feel the need to jump onto these threads to tell us men are no worse than women. Why? Are you trying to fool yourself so that you can feel safer? What’s the drive on a thread about male violence to jump in and post about women?

It will never change unless everyone takes a stand. Not just feisty young women going on marches. This includes all those family members who just keep the peace, the mates who don't challenge their friends, the new girlfriends who get with these men, even when they have criminal records.

This
im a smaller bloke, but I know full well that the kindnof harassment in public you’re talking about rarely escalated into violence unless the men are challenged. They won’t hit or stab a woman, but if you intervene you’re very likely to be assaulted or worse.

so yes of course I’d call out people I know behaving badly (although I wouldn’t have friends like that anyway), and of course I’d help anyone is real distress or danger, but honestly I’m not sure about low level harassment. I’m sorry. I feel I’d be in danger that a woman would not.

my partner (female) agrees and has intervened, but says she understands it’s somehow safer for a woman than a man.

as for “we should do something about bad men” well… yes. But you tend to only have friends you like, so not the people who are the problem. I’m also not sure it’s entirely right to say good men are at fault for bad men.

There’s an article in the mail this morning about a young woman who “mysteriously died” when she took her children to visit their maternal grandmother on her death bed. Children and husband have since disappeared…

I think most of us can figure out what happened - but as her mother says “nobody gives a shit about a poor woman from Burnley”.

I am sick of it.

there were rumours years ago that bromide (?) was slipped in the tea at Colchester (uk military prison) to keep the inmates “docile”.

perhaps that could be extended…

You seem to think I’m a man?

I am just saying that intervening in public is risky behaviour and I am not surprised people won’t do it. People have been murdered for less.

I don’t disagree with anything else you are saying.

YANBU OP and I feel the same having read about the Epsom case (I know nothing has been said explicitly about how they died but as others have said it's the most likely explanation given the phrasing from the police).

It's all very upsetting. Combine it with the fact that men across the land are changing their passports and driving licences to say female on them, and that so many people have fallen for this bullshit, it's a disgrace.

So, yeah, but it’s not like we all have a mate or two who hits their wife. People surround themselves with like minded people, so the men who do that will only have friends who think it’s ok. Those of us who think it’s awful, won’t have friends who do it (that we’re aware of). Men are not one homogeneous group, so an expectation we’re in a place to have any influence isn’t the case.

look if you don't want to tackle it, don't.
I didn't say they are a homogenous bunch. Far from it.
If it doesn't apply to your mates, great. But don't pretend that lots and lots of otherwise sound men can make comments, or do things when they've been drinking or egged on by their mates that makes women feel uncomfortable.

I'm talking about them, not your mates who are fine.

Why is it so flippin' hard to understand?

How do you know? No one assumes their mate is a rapist or woman beater or child abuser, but how do you know? He seems like a good guy down the pub when he’s with his male adult mates? Great, but try being a vulnerable 6 year old girl around him and you might see a whole different side. Predictors don’t tend to show their predatory or abusive side around people who aren’t their target victims.
I know this because my dad is a child abuser, the vast majority of adults would never think he was because of course, they’re not children so are never shown that side of him.

You realise most missing women don’t make the press? Just like most of our rapes and murders don’t either

Is this really the case? Press will report on most disappearances of women unless you come from the very bottom of the class hierarchy (it’s not right). For men, they aren’t interested at all, tbh

One of the saddest things I ever read was about the Cleveland (USA) kidnappings where the man tortured one of the victims with the fact no one was looking for her; he would turn on the TV when news reports of his second and third victims would air (they were younger and prettier, with intact families) and tell her she was worthless, no one cared or was looking for her, etc.

At least we can take consolation that as women we are far less likely than men to be violently assaulted or murdered by men.

Agree OP and feeling same. Violence and dictatorship all over the world would probably go down by at least 80% if the species of men suddenly disappeared. Or a better compromise, if men developed more "feminine" qualities of love, gentleness, compassion, spiritual outlook, etc.

From my experience, I only became aware of sexism when I became a mother.

In my 20s I believed we could have it all. I believed we'd won the fight. I didn't need to fight it, that had been done.

Looking back I was so naive. I didn't feel the full impact of sexism until my biology took over.

I have a son and a daughter and I'm trying to inspire them to be better.

Violence against women is at epidemic levels, it is likely you know someone who has harassed, sexually assaulted or abused a woman in some form. You may not think that to be true but the stories from every woman in my life and the many stories on social media suggest that these are your friends, your parents, your children.

YANBU. And this country is still so much better than many others. I am so tired of NAMALT handmaidens too.

Do tell me - what is the failsafe test which tells me who is the "good" man when I'm walking down the street, meeting someone socially or if I were going on a date?

Can I check for a little button behind the ear? Look for a special tattoo?

If not then sod off with your whinging to women and do something about male behaviour.