To feel hopeless about male violence

[brujarosada]

Everywhere I turn I see news stories where it's implicitly understood that a man harmed a woman. An obvious family annhilator? Definitely the husband. Woman disappears while out? Obviously a man.

I know that this is nothing new, but it feels so inevitable and hopeless. Women getting angry gets some attention sometimes (like with Sarah Everard). But there's no real change and toxic masculinity seems to be ever more celebrated - for example, there's currently a story in The Guardian about an influencer who is capturing the imagination of secondary school boys everywhere.

Am I wrong to feel so hopeless? Is there some sort of inspiring change that I am missing?

I guess there is a question of "normalising" the idea that males are naturally violent

We can see from the different rates of violence around the world that a lot of male violence is a social /learned rather than innate thing

So to me it's a tricky balance - respecting that women in particular suffer from male violence whilst at the same time trying to ensure that young boys and men don't feel that violence is a natural masculine response

YANBU.

any men reading this? what are you doing about it?

I'll give you an eg. I was at a football match the other day. Big rivals so very full and a lot of drunk people. On the train on the way back 4 or 5 very drunk men were harassing 2 young women - who hadn't been to the match and were just minding their own business.

And my DH and another chap we don't know - who are both around 60 - stepped in between the men and the young women and told the arseholes to leave them alone. And when they had done that, a few other people stepped in and moved the drunk men down the carriage and made sure the women remained unmolested for the rest of your journey.

Ever do that? Ever call your mates or other men out?

It’s probably way better than it used to be, so I guess not completely hopeless.

I read an article recently that Western society become safer because of the high number of executions that used to be performed (ie took extremely violent males out of the gene pool).

It could be time to bring it back. Only half joking here …

I agree the problem of male violence is depressing, but one thing that does bother me is that men are more likely to be victims of violence too, and that aspect is often overlooked, as if men deserve it.

I agree the problem of male violence is depressing, but one thing that does bother me is that men are more likely to be victims of violence too, and that aspect is often overlooked, as if men deserve it.

victims of other men. And it isn't overlooked. But men don't do anything about it. They just snipe from the sidelines when we mention how many women are killed by men. They could easily - so very easily - start to take notice and do a counting dead men or something. but nope. So i will concentrate on male violence against women.

YANBU. I have a daughter and I worry about what I’ve brought her into. I don’t know what the answer is, when I was younger I remember thinking things were getting better but now I just feel despondent.

As for the “not all men” up thread - have a word with yourself. The decent men in my life can participate in conversations about male violence without making it all about them, you should give it a try.

Great that it has a happy ending here but there is a personal safety risk so can understand why ppl would be reluctant to intervene. What if your DH had been stabbed? I would never intervene in this kind of situation (although I’m a really non-threatening looking woman anyway)

Bigger question is why drunk fans were allowed to use the train in the first place, very antisocial behaviour.

I was reading a medical article the other day that said that research was revealing that beta blockers can have a significant effect on reducing anger and violence. Perhaps mass medication is the way to go. I mean, it can't be pleasant being angry all the time. These individuals would be happier if those urges were brought under control and less women and children would suffer.

Men are not murdered for just being men, I am more likely to be murdered than my OH, however should OH start buying drugs, dealing drugs, fighting in pubs and football matches his chances go up. Sarah Everard was targeted and murdered because she wax a woman.

With the Epsom case, maybe wait to check it's not something like carbon monoxide poisoning before jumping to that conclusion. With the woman near Blackpool, I'm more saddened that she's got the level of press attention that she has, when similar "person disappears and no trace is found" cases, like the case of Richard Okorogheye, get nothing like the press coverage. No companies volunteering to do radar searches for him.

victims of other men. And it isn't overlooked. But men don't do anything about it.

At a societal level, I agree men don’t do enough, but on an individual level, if a “good man” sees a threatening “bad man”, by wading in, he’s more likely to get assaulted and/or killed.

If you say "not all men"

You are not helping

It's need to be "barely any men" - denormalising it

If you leave it to men to fix , you won't get it fixed - so much starts with how boys are parented - the whole "boys will be boys". With how children are taught with different standards for boys and girls, boys are leaders girls are bossy

And for each of those - women are just as likely as men to have those attitudes, and more likely than men to be in a position of influence

We need to work together not pit men against women. We need to work together not set up divisions. Divisions lead to hate between groups which never helps

Aww poppet, it must be awful having all these rapes and murders of women by men, pinned on men. 🙄

Men are not murdered for just being men, I am more likely to be murdered than my OH, however should OH start buying drugs, dealing drugs, fighting in pubs and football matches his chances go up.

this is what bothers me. This is the “men deserve it” argument. Turn the tables - “she went out to a bar, …., her chances went up”. how does that sound?

It’s exhausting. I’m so, so tired of it.

how weird to think that the man I married, father of my children, who I lie next to in bed at night - is the most dangerous person (to me, personally) that I will ever meet. How depressing.

what can we do to persuade men to stop murdering us.

why should we even have to persuade them.

What if your DH had been stabbed?

then he would have been a victim of m-on-m violence. He wasn't going to get stabbed, once he and one other man stepped up, others took the cue and stepped in too.

Don't make excuses. Sure there are times when what you do is call the police, and other times you can step in. Heck i've stepped in on occasions like this in the past. It usually takes one person in a crowd to say "no" and others will support you.

This goes against the general consensus, but I can honestly say that I don't give it any headspace.
If you want to change the way things are, then start with your own sons.

It CAN be draining for sure, if you let it drag you down. It's depressing listening to my DD's perspective on going out and how it's a lottery. She never quite knows whether she's going to be on the end of male BS or abuse if she turns down a man's advance. She's only bloody 18 so a great into to adult life. However despite this she compartmentalised it as she'd never go out if she spent her life worrying about it. So it's there, but not. Hats off to her TBH.

But let's not kid ourselves that women don't have the capacity to make people's lives an utter misery. Sure Kwasi Kwarteng was the face of the budget but he was Liz's puppet and she's basically wreaked havoc on our lives and ruined many. All in 45 days. Some will never recover from what she's done to this country and she has zero remorse. Then we have Michelle Mone, Theresa May, both self serving assholes who have made millions from being utter shite. Thatcher sent us to war. The list goes on. It's a shorter list but women are gaining traction at the top (in all areas of life) and often showing us that they can be equally evil and self serving at our expense.

The only thing women seem to lack is the capacity to be as violent but some will happily use violet men to achieve their aims, this perpetuating things.

Oh ffs. Read the room.

The only thing women seem to lack is the capacity to be as violent

This is literally a thread about male violence 🙄

In Pakistan the government are laying on pink buses for the exclusive use of women, who can rarely take public transportation without being sexually harassed by men.

I think this is the only practical starting point.

Use a central database and count all the crimes of violence against women and girls, divided into regions and types of offence. Then in a year, look at the stats and decide a programme to deal with it, with targets and regular reviews.

Once it becomes a big named problem, with big posters on buses and data backed solutions being sought, that will help a lot.

Right now it's a toxic drip drip drip.

I’m sorry, but it’s very true that men are not considered valuable. There is a social hierarchy

If a man disappears, it is usually just a personal or family tragedy. No one else particularly cares. If a woman or child disappears, people do tend to care more.

I don’t see why this is a problem tbh

Honestly I’ve seen too many stories of people (men and women) beaten and stabbed for intervening. I personally wouldn’t risk it.