To think DS's school is a bit much - or are all grammars like this?

[Annoynymouse85]

He's in year 8 at a grammar. I had no experience of grammars and was torn between sending him to a non-selective, where he'd probably be top of the class (but the options for boys around here aren't great) or a grammar where...well, I had no idea how he might do at a grammar TBH but he took two 11+ exams (we straddle two areas) and scored well above the pass marks so I assumed he was more than capable. In the end, I let him choose the school he liked best.

There are so many tests - in some subjects, they're set a new test immediately after putting their pen down for the last one. He always has something to revise for. I understand they need to get used to being tested but it seems relentless. Is this the norm for grammars/secondaries in general?

He was doing ok in year 7 but not so great this year - often scoring in the 50s-60% which is really knocking his confidence. He told me tonight that at primary he felt like he was good at subjects but now he feels like he's not doing well at anything. What makes it worse is that the school is so strict - it seems to take the default position that all students are potentially badly behaved so they need to treat them harshly all the time. Endless 'bad behaviour marks' for trivial things such as forgetting a book, rather than what I'd call actual willful bad behaviour. He actually has loads of good behaviour marks but I feel their approach makes well behaved kids feel like they're viewed as having the potential to be bad, iyswim.

He also seems to dislike quite a few teachers, which is just not like him, he's so easy going - I had to complain about one teacher (I have NEVER complained about a teacher!) and was told that several other parents had complained too and that 'things would change soon' (she was sacked, which I was grateful for). Also, they are so obsessed with attendance - they actively keep clearly ill children in school rather than let them go home.

He was such an easy student at primary, who never complained but here, I just don't get a sense that the school is nurturing. Since starting at the school, he's been suffering physical symptoms of anxiety.

I told him the other day that if he wanted to look at moving schools, we could do that - and he didn't baulk at the idea, which surprised me. He said it's not something he definitely wants to do, and he would hate to leave his friends but he wouldn't rule it out. We've agreed we'll see how it goes and talk to teachers at the upcoming parents' evening.

I'm so upset about this. I was so worried about making the wrong school choice for him, particularly as due to Covid, we had to choose a secondary based on videos on schools' websites rather than physical visits.

Is grammar just not for him? I just can't help thinking that if the environment was a little more nurturing and some of the teachers a little nicer, he might be having a more positive experience - or am I being naive, are all grammars like this?

Testing us what the government has reduced all schools to, not just grammars.

GCSEs are now memory tests hence the constant testing.

I think most grammars and high achieving schools are the same. He may be happier being a high achiever in a mixed ability school. It could be that he peaked ability wise as 11/12 or that he doesn't have the self discipline to knuckle down and do the homework and revision expected.

School years seem to be more grim that ever. It must come as a shock to go from cruising through primary to having to work hard though.

Sounds like it's going to affect his confidence and sense of self. Couldn't you send him to a local school instead?

You could be right @RandomMess about the knuckling down. He does do all his homework without fuss but when it comes to revision, I don't know if he does it frequently enough for it to stick in his head. But I also wonder if they've actually taught the kids how to revise - that's a skill in itself and to just be thrown into all these tests without knowing how to prepare for them properly.

He is in a local school @VioletLemon

It sounds tough. I would check carefully before moving him though as the local non selective academy near us is similar. Not very nurturing, lots of behaviour points for tiny infringements, lots of testing. Very sad to me - no real focus on building a love of learning or creativity.

Sounds like he'd have a much nicer experience at a non-selective school.
I work in one. Honestly, it's so caring and nurturing, we have lots of well-trained pastoral staff, a wellbeing team (inc dog!) and a sensible approach to attendance. If you're sick, you're sick.
And there is zero disruption in the higher ability sets. Very high standards (I was doing GCSE style work with Y8 just today) Weekly homework, half termly tests, plenty of clubs, trips, fun and laughter.
Let him take a look at a couple, there's no harm in it.

He sounds a lovely boy.

A grammar is for him as far as ability is concerned. Grammars are so selective that being in the middle or even the bottom is relatively speaking the equivalent of being at the top in another school. He should not feel disheartened at all.

It is also normal to have that much work to do and it is at selective private schools too.

Somehow though it does not sound a pleasant school at all. What are the extra curricular aspects like? What do they do to encourage all the talents the children have?

It is nice he has friends there though and it sounds as though you are both being sensible in deciding to see how it goes for now.

Thanks @Strikedayfun I'm sorry to hear you have similar issues. It's awful isn't it? The one thing I desperately wanted for him at secondary school was to feel happy and cared for and I just don't get a caring vibe from the school at all.

And yes, that's my worry, that if I did move him, it would be to somewhere just as bad, or that a new school could throw up a new set of problems....

@leccybill your school sounds lovely! But unfortunately as the PP above you mentioned, it could just as easily be like DS's school! You're right though - looking at some wouldn't hurt?

@ScrollingLeaves thank you for your lovely words. You're right, it doesn't seem pleasant. It's so hard for me to judge the school properly, though- like I said, I never got to visit it prior to him going there and you have such little contact with a secondary school, it's not like primary where you're at the school gates every day. I just don't get a great vibe. And he doesn't really take part in any extra curricular activities there. There aren't a huge amount of trips either. He's only been on one since he's been there -admittedly, he did enjoy it though - they went to a zoo for the day.

Sounds very much like the Grammar my dc went to. Not particularly nurturing, lots of testing. You’re not somewhere beginning with S are you? If not, then maybe all Grammars are the same!

Hope your ds gets to enjoy school a bit more in the coming years, whether he stays put or moves. I think my dc would say they were glad they went to their school, despite it sounding like a bear pit a lot of the time.

No, not beginning with S!

Did your DC get on ok at their school though - did they enjoy it?

It’s difficult because things would have changed anyway, whichever senior school he moved to. And perhaps there would have been other issues to complain of elsewhere.

Clearly he had an easier time in yr 7, but I guess it was inevitable that the school would pick up the pace at some point. Presumably they do better in exams than the other schools - and this would be why. I’m afraid coming down hard on petty misdemeanours is another way of ensuring as little time as possible is wasted through repeated carelessness and unpreparedness.

The fact that they sacked an unsatisfactory teacher is surely an indication of … something positive?

I don’t know … I slightly feel that at the point where he’s finding he’s no longer top of the class, your job is to help him find out how to study more efficiently. If he were really struggling and obviously at the wrong school, that would be a different matter.

Tbh it sounds as if it’s the education system that’s unsatisfactory.

@RandomersAssociation that's a great point - about helping him to study more efficiently. I have tried on numerous occasions to suggest different ways of revising - drawing mind maps, flash cards, coloured notes etc - to really help things stick in his head. But he's insistent that however he revises is fine - I think it's just a classic case of thinking that because I'm his mum, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

I wondered if I maybe insisted on helping him revise intensively for just one test in the hope that he got a good mark, it might a) boost his confidence and b)help him find a more effective revision method? Of course, none of this tackles the issue of the school itself being so lacking in nurturing but it might help him feel better about himself?

And, yes...the education system IS unsatisfactory, isn't it? There's no joy in it at all.

Well done for taking such an open-minded view of his situation.

It sounds like he is going through a challenging period, and that must be hard to observe. But you should take heart from the fact that he doesn’t want to leave. If you move him to a school where he can effortlessly be number one, you risk denying him that chance to be stimulated and challenged - and you know that he is bright and on some level he will need that challenge, even if at times it can take the form of less desirable challenges like regular testing.

In several years I sense you may look back on this situation and be glad he stuck it out because he will be so much better-placed academically for success, university, and all that.

2 DCs at grammar, we live in an area with a lot of grammars (10+ in a 10 mile radius) and most are Ofsted ‘outstanding’. The single sex grammars particularly seem to be obsessed with their kid’s achieving as many 9s as possible and test them endlessly to get them there.

I remind my DCs that their school is ‘the top set’, the cleverest 30% of kids have been creamed off and put into grammar schools and that they’re actually doing amazingly well. (Not necessarily true of all areas but definitely where I am.)

If DCs were really unhappy I would move them. I would compare the results of local grammars, chose those that perform less well and go and have a look around before going to non-selective.

Hmm - rigid inflexibility in his thinking is not going to be helpful! Have you pointed out that learning how to learn is a crucial part of success? Find him a book or website that explains it.

I noticed you said he does no extra-curricular stuff at school? Does he take part in anything outside school? He does need some opportunity to ‘play’; to engage with a different cohort; to excel at something.

Thank you @shropshire11 @TwoPointFourCatsAndDogs and @RandomersAssociation

Yes, I'm both encouraged that he doesn't immediately want to leave but also a little surprised that he's open to the suggestion. And, yes, I take the point about giving him the opportunity to be tested - I suppose it's just how he responds to that, whether he buckles or eventually rises to it?

Absolutely right - I do need to remind him that he's one of the top xx% and is doing amazingly well. Also, that's a good idea, to check out less well-performing grammars. How difficult would it be to get into another grammar though, at this point, do you think? It's so competitive to get into them in year 7!

Sorry, he does do an extra curricular club outside of school - he absolutely loves it and has been doing since he was 5. And he has private guitar lessons at school (forgot about that!) but he doesn't actually get involved in any of the school-run clubs.

My DS is in a grammar, albeit year 7 at the moment.
The test after test is a little gruelling (but DS isn't phased by it all just yet).

With regards to how nurturing the school is, so far our experience is positive, but I think as they go up the years it might get harder and the dc feel the pressure.

I was, admittedly, impressed with the pastoral care and the efforts made to ensure the boys integrated well within the school at the beginning of school term and just before the holidays.

From my understanding you will need to contact other grammars to see if they have places for in year admissions, and then take it from there.

@watcherintherye we might be talking about the same school.

I would suggest that you find him a tutor in study skills. It will stand him in good stead no matter if he stays or goes to a new school. It sounds like he may need a boost in that department and then if he gets his confidence back, everything else will slot back into place.

Learning how you learn (rather than how a teacher thinks the whole class should learn) is crucial and dc often just will not entertain that their parents might know anything about it. I used to learn best by pacing up and down while reciting facts out loud, and making crazy nemonics (sp?). DD came down for dinner the other night telling me about how she is singing her latin vocab to remember it…but she is convinced she invented the idea herself grrr!

Thanks @LostMyMarblesToday

Unfortunately I’ve seen no real evidence of pastoral care until last week when I contacted the team myself and asked someone to chat to DS, which they have started doing and he finds the teacher helpful.

The school talks a lot about well-being but doesn’t seem to really put that talk into practice. I can honestly say that the overarching message I get from the school is that good attendance is the absolute most important thing. That, and wearing your blazer at all times. Basically, their figures and reputation are what matter most.

You’ve all made really helpful comments, thank you so much. I think I’m going to try the resilient approach first - remind him that he is doing really well to be there in the first place, and have a really good go at trying some new revision techniques to see if he can improve some scores and if so, see if that makes him feel more positive about his school experience and, more importantly, himself.

Did your DC get on ok at their school though - did they enjoy it?

They all did very well academically, in the end, despite preferring PlayStation and X-Box and not getting consistently stellar grades for the majority of their time there!

I think they enjoyed the camaraderie and bonding through adversity. Some of the teachers were good, some sounded unhinged, and you kind of felt the school was in a bit of a 50s time-warp, with ‘chores’ as one of the punishments and the head patrolling town to catch unwary pupils who’d discarded their tie or blazer prematurely.

All the dc have stayed friends with groups from school, and remember it with some nostalgia, I think, and maybe relief that they made it through!

I hope your ds feels better about things soon. I remember Yr 8 being quite tricky with regard to friendships and coming to terms with the school’s expectations, then things seemed to settle down a bit in Yr 9.

we might be talking about the same school.

I wonder if we are, @LostMyMarblesToday 🙂

@SeaToSki great idea. You’re right, the school seems to think they all learn the same way. They have this revision app they use for languages which records how many times you use it so you can “prove” how much revision you’ve done. But what if you don’t find the app helpful??

That gives me hope @watcherintherye Great that your DC did so well!

My dd is Y10. Constant testing. 5 this week alone.