To think DS's school is a bit much - or are all grammars like this?

[Annoynymouse85]

He's in year 8 at a grammar. I had no experience of grammars and was torn between sending him to a non-selective, where he'd probably be top of the class (but the options for boys around here aren't great) or a grammar where...well, I had no idea how he might do at a grammar TBH but he took two 11+ exams (we straddle two areas) and scored well above the pass marks so I assumed he was more than capable. In the end, I let him choose the school he liked best.

There are so many tests - in some subjects, they're set a new test immediately after putting their pen down for the last one. He always has something to revise for. I understand they need to get used to being tested but it seems relentless. Is this the norm for grammars/secondaries in general?

He was doing ok in year 7 but not so great this year - often scoring in the 50s-60% which is really knocking his confidence. He told me tonight that at primary he felt like he was good at subjects but now he feels like he's not doing well at anything. What makes it worse is that the school is so strict - it seems to take the default position that all students are potentially badly behaved so they need to treat them harshly all the time. Endless 'bad behaviour marks' for trivial things such as forgetting a book, rather than what I'd call actual willful bad behaviour. He actually has loads of good behaviour marks but I feel their approach makes well behaved kids feel like they're viewed as having the potential to be bad, iyswim.

He also seems to dislike quite a few teachers, which is just not like him, he's so easy going - I had to complain about one teacher (I have NEVER complained about a teacher!) and was told that several other parents had complained too and that 'things would change soon' (she was sacked, which I was grateful for). Also, they are so obsessed with attendance - they actively keep clearly ill children in school rather than let them go home.

He was such an easy student at primary, who never complained but here, I just don't get a sense that the school is nurturing. Since starting at the school, he's been suffering physical symptoms of anxiety.

I told him the other day that if he wanted to look at moving schools, we could do that - and he didn't baulk at the idea, which surprised me. He said it's not something he definitely wants to do, and he would hate to leave his friends but he wouldn't rule it out. We've agreed we'll see how it goes and talk to teachers at the upcoming parents' evening.

I'm so upset about this. I was so worried about making the wrong school choice for him, particularly as due to Covid, we had to choose a secondary based on videos on schools' websites rather than physical visits.

Is grammar just not for him? I just can't help thinking that if the environment was a little more nurturing and some of the teachers a little nicer, he might be having a more positive experience - or am I being naive, are all grammars like this?

My friends son still suffers mental health problems because of all the pressure the teachers put on him and the things they said to him which has only recently come out five years later. Just be careful and make sure he keeps talking to you because my friend had no idea how much he was suffering and she wished she got him out a lot sooner

@euff no, WGSB. Which is yours?

@SnackSizeRaisin I agree completely - I’m not sure what life lesson is learnt from not being able to regulate your own comfort by removing your blazer???

@gettingalifttothestation that’s awful. He is very good at talking to me so hopefully that continues.

So much good advice in this thread - I guess I’m realising that maybe we need to try adjusting the way he learns/revises at home and see if he can find what works for him. But I do still think a little more support at school wouldn’t hurt. Also a bit more emphasis on celebrating when students do well rather than focusing so much on the negatives.

He isn’t totally reliant on academic success as a measure of worth but it helps, doesn’t it?

Grammars can be really brutal.

@Annoynymouse85 DD is at TG. It was a shock to her and me when she started, the quality of the notes that the other girls were taking was something else and some of them were already used to studying morning and night which she isn't. She was on the fence with BGS which apparently has a lovely environment if you did decide to change in the future. I don't really know the schools on your side except that the WG and DG schools are supposed to be really good.

@euff sorry, just reread your posts and it’s clear your DD went to TG!
Does she like it? I know some girls who went there too - one is thriving, but another is potentially leaving due to bullying. Does your DD like it.

Yea, I heard BG was lovely with great pastoral care but DS didn’t want to go there. I let him choose where he wanted to go. From watching virtual open evenings, I found it really hard to form a strong opinion about any school so I thought if he felt strongly that he liked one, then that’s the one he should go for.

We actually only live a few minutes from your school, funnily enough.

From what everyone is saying then, it really is luck of the draw when it comes to secondaries as to whether they’re nurturing, nice teachers, no bullying etc, regardless of whether they’re selective or not.

reading the scores out in class, any test you dont achieve your targ et grade in has to be repeated at lunchtimes until you do.
Dd had 3 tests on the last day of the school year and when it was the record breaking heat
4 subjects homework every night after first year (when you only get 3)

@Annoynymouse85

I let DD choose herself too (same with doing the 11+) but did worry that it might not have been the right thing and I was just taking the pressure off me to not make the wrong choice for her. She liked the video for TG and was very much for it until the application deadline. She had a wobble and told us in the car that she wasn't sure any longer and was considering BG but we we all had school/ work and the deadline was 5 so we didn't delve further. Her friend went to BG and is very happy there. You said he had a decent pass on the 11+ and would he have also had to score higher than other applicants as applying from out of borough? DD also had a tutor and we had the whole should we shouldn't we dilemma but like you it was only from year 5 one hour a week (same one I wonder?!) . If we couldn't afford it we would have spent the same time preparing ourselves. I now know that other kids start much younger and have more tuition. There are so many tuition centres in the borough.

She doesn't dislike TG. Not a great vote of confidence is it. I think it's a little daunting for her being around girls who are used to pressure and expectations from family and do very well. Her marks have also not been fantastic but she isn't really used to the idea of studying and doing any work outside set homework. Her primary had very little homework compared to other schools and her idea of a lot of work is different to others. I think like you say some kids have already been taught revision and organisation skills etc or have managed to teach themselves.

How DD views some subjects from last year to this has changed. For example, Art, last year the teacher expected them to pretty much teach themselves or look things up themselves and didn't give constructive feedback or suggestions on their work. This year she has a teacher who is very knowledgeable and enthusiastic and will do these things. She didn't like Art last year but does this year. Same with one or two other subjects and it was nice to feedback to teachers at parents evening that DD had spoken about them making a difference.

I have told her that if she's not happy we can try and move her but she's not unhappy enough for that and probably worried about starting again and it being the same or worse. She's not experienced any bullying and no fighting until one incident just recently but doesn't know much about it. She has friends and I think is friendly with quite a few people but not really close with anyone or seeing anyone out of school which I think is an issue for her. She had a very close little group in primary.

I think it can make them down to see so many excelling around them and not feel up to par with their classmates. One of DD's friends reminds me of Hermione in HP, very self driven and a jam packed schedule. She does well but clearly puts in a lot of work and is organised and on top of it. DD is very day dreamy, she will do her homework and put effort in there but is not pro active.

@euff wow, your DD sounds exactly like my DS - it also sounds like we've had exactly the same conversations with them. His tutor's initials were JC. To be honest, I didn't rate her - she just churned out the same work for every child she tutored, rather than actually tailoring it to them and addressing their weak spots.

I don't think he needed a higher pass mark because we were outside the borough (although I know that is true of DG) but he did get a great score (about 60 points above the pass mark or something along those lines).

I think what you and lots of others have said is probably true - it's a learning curve for them realising how much more work they have to do in secondary compared to primary. I do think that having a few quite uninspiring teachers really doesn't help either thought!

@Yolomama yes, they tend to be vocab tests/written assessments.

Now that you’ve filled in some detail, OP - I have to say I’m surprised that you were surprised at regular vocab tests in languages! They’re really, really standard.

(Even a hundred years ago when I moved from a state to an independent school, I think I kept my Latin vocab notebook about my person from 13 to 16 and learnt 20 words every single night. Yes, I did get an A at O’ Level!)

@SeaToSki Has some good ideas. My DD used mnemonics, flash cards and also mind maps for exams at secondary school. I would investigate help with revision first but bear in mind that some children flourish being top of the tree rather than middling at an academic school. Also the school might be marking in preparation for GCSE so whilst harsh marking now will increase through to year 11. Definitely a good idea to remind your DS that he is in the top % to boost his confidence.

Sounds normal for grammar, chill out, it's not going to suit everyone but he sounds sensible about it. Let's face it life isn't a pretty bed of roses, there's no point in giving up as soon as its hard or stressful, you do have to ride it out and see if it improves. I'm sure he'll make the right decision for him.

I went to a very high performing grammar and academically did very well. Tested all the time - but one gets used to all the testing. I mean - life is tough, the environment prepares people adequately for life.....

I can see though that it wouldn’t be the environment for everyone - all kids are different, it’s a shame if people hate their school days. You have given him an out and at the moment he is not taking it. I do think that if someone is really unhappy that can also compromise results and later life.

I suppose what I am saying is it’s a balancing act, perhaps a little longer time and if things don’t improve then another school.

with that type of school though by the time you get to GCSE/ A level— exams are just another part of school life, not this big massive thing!

Sounds like one of my DS’s schools (beginning with W)! Much prefer the other school in neighbouring borough… have considered moving this child but seems to be doing better in Yr 9

@Fanlover1122 - think you’re right - he needs a bit more time to get used to it and get to grips with the amount of work.

@ForestGirl73 That’s interesting - what changed in year 9, do you think.
And what does the neighbouring borough begin with😁?

Just seen your other messages - they’re at the same school and if my youngest has passed the B test (1 mark off & didn’t get appeal!), he’d be with his brother! I’m still working on the head to try & get him in as I hate W with a passion! He’s about to take options - I think having the end in sight for some subjects is helping. I can’t recommend B in B highly enough - having seen both teaching styles through lockdown, it’s so different & so more suited to my boys.

@ForestGirl73 DS passed the B one but didn’t want any of the B schools! Which one do you mean by “B in B”? What do you hate about W?

@Keepfocused I don’t know what the end goal is, as he has no idea what he wants to do. I was the first in my family to go to uni and would love him to go but only if it’s what he wanted to do and would help him achieve the kind of life he wants. So I suppose I just want him to have as many options open to him as possible.

I can’t comment on the school obviously but my DH went to a grammar school whereas I didn’t (didn’t live in an area with them). We met at uni and he’s objectively cleverer than me, although I also did very well at school.
Interestingly, he never FELT all that smart as he basically sat in the middle of his classes, whereas I was normally at the top and always had a very good opinion of my abilities and felt confident that I was good at things.
I do feel that this has stood me in good stead in life!

The boys school nearest to TG. I can’t recommend it enough.
With W, I feel they use a negative discipline system (behaviour cards should only be issued if warranted IMO), discipline is unfairly meted out with some being chosen to “set an example” (my son has received behaviour points on a few occasions where he was one of 5 or 6 to receive them despite there being many more doing the same thing - confirmed by a teacher), the new ILT system, had a huge safeguarding issue with the old head, the patronising attitude of teachers (he does have some nice ones but they are the minority)… I could go on! And the appalling communication is beyond belief!

My niece's school is like that, constant tests & if pupil's don't do as well as the staff think they should they get given detentions. They are always under pressure, my niece has been so badly affected that she has been self harming, been found revising in the middle of the night & is a nervous wreck. If you can find another school, move him if you can.