Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

820 replies

Winterday1991 · 30/01/2023 15:31

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

OP posts:
Botw1 · 30/01/2023 20:54

@Mark19735

Sure

Couples thinking that men are providers and women are the default parent is the biggest problem

Mark19735 · 30/01/2023 21:17

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 20:54

@Mark19735

Sure

Couples thinking that men are providers and women are the default parent is the biggest problem

I totally agree. The sooner we live in a fairer, more just world in which women are compensated properly for the work they do, and don't expect a disproportionate contribution of their familial wealth to come from a partner, the better.

Did you know there's been research done on grudges and perceptions of good and bad outcomes. Men have a tendency to recalibrate or "reset to zero" overnight. A bad day today doesn't have to mean that tomorrow must also be a bad day. Women have a greater tendency to compound. So a bad day today is more likely to be interpreted as tomorrow being more likely start off in a worse place already, and is therefore more likely to end even worse, and only marginally likely to be not quite as bad as today. It's not a criticism or anything - in fact it's been mooted as one of the evolutionary reasons why women are better at planning than men are.

But with this in mind, I re-read my post. There's nothing written in there to suggest a permanent loss of career. There's nothing even to suggest an actual loss of career. What I wrote was "mum ... sees everything through the lens of having 'lost' her career". I even put the 'lost' in inverted commas, to highlight that it was notional or abstract. And yet you interpreted it as a misogynistic assumption about provider and care-giver roles. When @Stillcountingbeans used the exact same scenario, you were happy to accept that the mum is a lower earner/on maternity leave as the context.

How come?

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:24

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

caringcarer · 30/01/2023 21:27

Yes today there is a thread about a DH not wanting his DW to get her dream job as he can't be bothered to do the children's breakfast and take them to school, despite she has done it all on her own for 8 years. It really is selfish beyond belief.

TomPinch · 30/01/2023 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I make no comment at all on mark19735's posts, but I - male - have been reading and posting on here without any particular problems for 14 years. I came here for parenting tips and support. Given the subject of this thread I suggest you ought to approve of that.

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:31

@Mark19735

Im not surprised men are more likely to sweep things under the carpet if the research is true. They're quite often socialised to put themselves first.

You're attempted back track from your initial sexist position of man as provider /woman as carer is quite funny though

you literally said he had to pay for things, work harder, go for promotions (she doesnt?!). You said she's never had to be a sole provider and he is far to big and important to be worrying about the dishwasher (Paraphrase)

C'mon. It was like something out of a 50s handbook. I was expecting a section on a ribbon in her hair

ukholidayseeker · 30/01/2023 21:32

It comes down to women taking a 'career break' to have kids and then not making the time back up. Fewer promotions, less opportunities, lower salary.

WineDup · 30/01/2023 21:32

shropshire11 · 30/01/2023 15:39

Agree with PP. This board is packed with stories of feckless men, but very few of these men have suddenly become feckless after the birth of children.

Women choose to procreate with unreliable men who show no signs of ‘stepping up’ to fatherhood. Many people should be more discerning before committing to family life, rather than waiting until the second or even third DC to actually figure it out.

Not only that, their children are brought up thinking that it’s okay for mummy to do everything and daddy to relax. Little girls are brought up to think they SHOULD do everything, and little boys are brought up thinking that they don’t need to do anything outside paid employment.

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:32

*your

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:32

TomPinch · 30/01/2023 21:29

I make no comment at all on mark19735's posts, but I - male - have been reading and posting on here without any particular problems for 14 years. I came here for parenting tips and support. Given the subject of this thread I suggest you ought to approve of that.

Well your reason is as good as any I suppose but I’d still prefer if this forum was entirely female centric and that men were confined to certain subsections of the forum such as parenting advice for men. I think most would agree with that.

Witsendwilly · 30/01/2023 21:36

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:32

Well your reason is as good as any I suppose but I’d still prefer if this forum was entirely female centric and that men were confined to certain subsections of the forum such as parenting advice for men. I think most would agree with that.

Wow, and lol.

I can just imagine the thread on here if there was a forum somewhere that banned women and only let them post in certain sub forums.

TomPinch · 30/01/2023 21:37

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:32

Well your reason is as good as any I suppose but I’d still prefer if this forum was entirely female centric and that men were confined to certain subsections of the forum such as parenting advice for men. I think most would agree with that.

Yours is a view that comes up from time to time. I will add that because I have been able to read and contribute to discussions I almost certainly know an awful lot more about various issues women and girls face. Would you prefer that I'd remained ignorant?

I try not to say anything if I've nothing useful to say and that seems to have worked.

Mark19735 · 30/01/2023 21:37

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:31

@Mark19735

Im not surprised men are more likely to sweep things under the carpet if the research is true. They're quite often socialised to put themselves first.

You're attempted back track from your initial sexist position of man as provider /woman as carer is quite funny though

you literally said he had to pay for things, work harder, go for promotions (she doesnt?!). You said she's never had to be a sole provider and he is far to big and important to be worrying about the dishwasher (Paraphrase)

C'mon. It was like something out of a 50s handbook. I was expecting a section on a ribbon in her hair

Not my position!!!! How many times ....

It was to show contrast with @Stillcountingbeans post. If you've got any issues about the biases and assumptions in that scenario - take it up with them.

StressedSquirrel · 30/01/2023 21:39

C1N1C · 30/01/2023 18:38

This COULD simply be a result of sampling bias. This is a forum by women, for women... so of course you're going to see proportionally more posts from women, about men... and subsequently, only negative posts! Will anyone else come on here and say "I love my husband, he's perfect, discuss..."??? No, of course not! I actually set up a post trying with the aim to compliment your men and it sunk like a lead balloon on a planet with 1000x gravity.

Of course, this post will probably be shot down by some arguing men ARE this way, as they have an agenda and/or have been burnt or are in this situation, but realistically there is a HUGE sampling bias.

And we are only getting one side of the story... for all we know we could have Amber Heard in here saying her man doesn't pick up his mess, and everyone would rally behind her, when in reality, her abuse on HIM is comparably far worse!... but we don't hear that side.

@C1N1C I posted almost the exact same thing earlier on in this thread!

There's a huge difference between identifying a recurring theme (useless male partners) in a forum that essentially invites people to post about disharmony (huge selection bias) vs. conducting a nationally representative study with a random sample of women with kids in the U.K.

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:40

@Mark19735

Yes.

Your position.

You could have easily countered their post without the sexism.

Well, someone less mysoginist could have easily countered their post without the sexism.

Their post was pretty accurate to start off with anyway apart from it being as much women's fault as men's.

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:41

Witsendwilly · 30/01/2023 21:36

Wow, and lol.

I can just imagine the thread on here if there was a forum somewhere that banned women and only let them post in certain sub forums.

Yes these forums do exist they are called every other forum on the internet. This site is great because it is the only site I know that actively centers women and our experiences above all else. Nowhere else is that so strongly felt and I guess there are some that don’t want us to have that.

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:41

@StressedSquirrel

Do you think those surveys would have a vastly different outcome?

(they don't)

Stillcountingbeans · 30/01/2023 21:42

@Mark19735

Hey - @Stillcountingbeans
A lot of the time it goes like this:

A 20-something couple rent somewhere together, both working.
Then biology kicks in and she they think about a baby.
But they don't think about a baby in the same way - because hormones.

He quite likes the idea of 'being a dad' just as much as she likes the idea of 'being a mum'.
Disagree - he doesn't want a baby 'just as much' as her. She doesn't merely 'like' the idea of a baby, she is biologically driven to crave a baby (obvs not all women, but I believe this is the case for most). This is why so many women stay with no-hopers despite the red flags in the early stages - they want a man, sometimes almost any man, because they are driven to 'start a family'. Being in love is a trick our biology plays on our brains.

They might think they understand the reality of nappies and lack of sleep, but actually neither of them have got a clue.
Agreed, but several hundred thousand years of evolution means that in most cases she will be able to find her reserves of strength and get through those early months, whereas he is more likely than her give up and opt out.

Then baby arrives and he steps up to the plate. He knows that he'll have to pay for more things, and that he now has three mouths to feed
You see 'stepping up to the plate' almost entirely in financial terms. She may have full maternity pay then go back to work, so she is in fact contributing just as much financially as him. Even if she only returns to work part time, she is saving the family unit from having to pay for childcare, a cleaner, a laundry service, bought-in meals, etc. etc.
In other words, she also now has three mouths to feed.
And on top of this, she continues to do all the household tasks that he opts out of, and also carries the mental load for the family.

but he accepts that he has entered into a twenty+ year commitment, so he knuckles down, works harder than ever before, goes for promotions, and just accepts that the early starts and long commutes and all that stress are worth it because he loves his family dearly.
If he really loved them, he would prioritise being at home, and give up the job with the long commute, take his share of parental leave in the first year, and thereafter share all the school runs, nursery closure days, child-off-sick days, etc. As well as doing his 50% of household tasks and mental work.

But, this isn't good enough for mum, who sees everything through the lens of having 'lost' her career, her previous life, and resents dad, who she believes is still enjoying all those things.
In many cases he is still enjoying work, and indeed he chooses to work more and longer, to avoid the dreaded bedtime routine with a fractious toddler, or the waking-every-three-hours nights. He does this because his work involves talking to adults and is more interesting than being in the company of a child all day, whilst telling himself he is doing it for the family.

Obviously she still wants the nice things - house, car, holidays - that two people used to be able to afford when paying for two, but she doesn't appreciate that one person paying for three places a greater burden, both financially and psychologically, on dad ... because she's never had to.
You are mistaken that one person pays for three - in most cases these days she returns to work, at least part time. And you are mistaken that she doesn't share the burden of financial hardship - after all she does most of the shopping and is acutely aware of rising prices.

Starved of adult company, she offloads all her woes and tribulations onto him at the end of each working day, without realising that he is carrying a day's worth of stress and pressure and needs to unwind.
Of course they both need to offload and unwind after a day of stress and pressure - are you suggesting there is no stress and pressure being at home with a child, whilst also doing the lion's share of housework and carrying the mental load?

To him, the dishwashing or the hoovering are quite possibly the least important things in the world.
But to her they are very important: she knows that if the dishwashing isn't done, she will have no clean plates or pans to feed the child with the next day, or if the hoovering isn't done then the baby will be crawling on the floor putting all sorts of filthy bits into its mouth - she is aware of the consequences if tasks aren't done, whilst he is oblivious.

They row over trivial things. Life rapidly becomes unbearable for both of them.
If the baby is lucky, the parents work through it, mum appreciates what dad is doing for the family, and they stay together.
Likewise Dad has to appreciate what Mum is doing for the family.

If the baby is unlucky, dad leaves.
If the baby is really unlucky, dad is driven away, and mum shacks up with a new man
Men frequently are far more bothered about 'their' woman 'shacking up' with a new man than they are bothered about the welfare of their children.

and this drives a wedge between the dad and his DC.
Why would the woman's new partner drive a wedge between the dad and his children? That makes no sense. More likely the Dad perceives a 'wedge' because he can@Stillcountingbeans't cope with the re relationship with his children a priority in his life now that he no longer lives with their mum.

But that's OK, because several hundred MN posters think it's what passes for 'therapy'.
I have no idea what you mean by this.

WineDup · 30/01/2023 21:42

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:32

Well your reason is as good as any I suppose but I’d still prefer if this forum was entirely female centric and that men were confined to certain subsections of the forum such as parenting advice for men. I think most would agree with that.

With all due respect, part of the reason that useless men are seen as socially acceptable is because parenting is seen as predominantly a mothers task. By limiting fathers access, it’s perpetuating the stereotype that it is for women only.

Im sure there are spaces of the internet which are exclusively for females; personally I don’t care what someone I’m debating with online has in their pants.

ukholidayseeker · 30/01/2023 21:46

Applesandcarrots · 30/01/2023 18:06

I think education about healthy relationships should be part for the national curriculum

Yeah like the kids would take it in (ignoring for a minute the fact every parental failure is mentioned on mn as "should be taught at school"). Large parts of kids can't even take in basic map of Europe, can't see them realistically remebering anything from "relationship lessons".

Healthy relationships is part of the PHSE curriculum for KS2

ukholidayseeker · 30/01/2023 21:47

SeasonFinale · 30/01/2023 18:15

Surely the question should be why are so many women allowing their partners to be less than a partner?

Don't really have a choice... I can't control his behaviour. How would I go about 'not allowing' him?

StressedSquirrel · 30/01/2023 21:48

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:41

@StressedSquirrel

Do you think those surveys would have a vastly different outcome?

(they don't)

My point wasn't that a nationally representative survey would find the exact opposite, but that a forum that invites people to post about shit experiences in their life is going to massively oversample people with useless male DPs.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of statistics understands that AIBU is not representative!

Stillcountingbeans · 30/01/2023 21:50

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:32

Well your reason is as good as any I suppose but I’d still prefer if this forum was entirely female centric and that men were confined to certain subsections of the forum such as parenting advice for men. I think most would agree with that.

I for one would disagree - it is important and valuable to get the male perspective on a lot of things.

Botw1 · 30/01/2023 21:52

@StressedSquirrel

So your point isn't that the research would be different, but aibu which mostly has useless male partners isn't representative?

Isn't that the same as saying the research would show a different representation?

(it doesn't)

SandraCumin · 30/01/2023 21:53

Stillcountingbeans · 30/01/2023 21:50

I for one would disagree - it is important and valuable to get the male perspective on a lot of things.

Such as?

Swipe left for the next trending thread