So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

We are roughly 50/50 but only because we’ve had clear discussions on it and he knows I wouldn’t tolerate doing everything

This is part of the problem. Lots of people are happy enough to have sex with person and make another person but would for the love of god never set boundaries and communicate expectations because it's uncomfortable or something...

I don't think it's true of all men. Yes, I do more at home but DH works more hours than me. He often comes home, plays with dd for a while then baths her and gets her ready for bed. He plays on his PlayStation when I don't need help with anything.
We get treated how we allow ourselves to be treated

Until we, as a society/group, stop approaching romance with starry-eyed optimism, and with more of a steely focus on how a partnership should function, we won't see much change. Women need to understand the financial impact of pregnancy and child rearing, and they need to mitigate it long before they want babies.

So many men fall short of minimum standards, and women are trained to accept it.

I honestly don't know why women bother.

Surprisingly I paid for all childcare when we go to work, I cooked, I cleaned for him, I provided the frickin roof over our heads. I have a career, he has a dead end job. And the cunt has the audacity to leave me and kids to live with mummy and daddy as if what I wasn’t doing wasnt good enough for him

I believe most humans (men included) are not useless and we all need to stop this narrative that 50% of the human race is incapable to love, respect, responsibility, reflection, insight... all of the things required to parent well. Men can do it. Some chose not to.

I agree with this. Higher expectations of men are where we need to be, and that helps with the boundary setting. If you enter a (hetero) relationship with your expectation of a man is that he won't do the laundry, and he doesn't, you're plunging yourself into a life of wet sock management. If you have the expectation that laundry is a shared job, and he doesn't bother to do it, you then set the boundary by saying "look mate I dunno why I'm doing all the laundry, it's your turn - you know where the basket is" then wait.

But this isn't me bashing women who DON'T do that - because expectations come from somewhere. I think it's incredibly important to drill into the next generation that boring tasks that are generated by the mere process of being alive (like cleaning, cooking, tidying) are the joint responsibility of everyone living there. Kids getting made to do housework as soon as they can, starting with doing their own cleanup work (laundry to the laundry basket, cups and plates downstairs, tidying done etc) and then moving on to shared tasks in the family spaces - hoovering, dishwasher, cooking, fetching fuel in, cleaning the bathroom etc. Both parents should be drilling this into the next lot of kids but if their father is absent or shit you can make sure your kids get the message that shitwork is partly their job.

*Speak for yourself.

It is not my reality*

@Sublimeursula

So you're basically saying 'fuck 'em' about the women whose reality this is? Aren't you a treasure.

Well why wouldn't men take a casual, can't be bothered approach to childcare when successive governments and legislation have supported that?

Men are practically invited to walk out the door and not bear the costs of raising the child that is 50% their responsibility. The CSA wasn't great to begin with but now its close to useless.
If you default on a car loan you're more likely to be required to pay up than if you have a child.

Single mothers are vilified by almost everyone.

Quality, affordable childcare isn't taken seriously by the government. Relegated instead to a token 'women's issue'.

Going on maternity leave? You can look forward to redundancy, lower pay and demotion.

'Caring' professions dominated by women continue to be under paid while high earners at senior levels continue to be over-represented by men (who can of course have children AND a career without any question of 'juggling').

And shared parental leave is a token gesture at best.

'ten years stale'? I wish it was stale.

"Speak for yourself.
It is not my reality"

It's not my life either but that doesn't mean I stick my fingers in my ears while chanting 'I'm alright mate'.

Well.it's like anything on the internet isn't it if you post a thread saying your, partner is useless and selfish ,you are going to get lots of replies from people who.are or have been in a similar situation ,which makes it seem,a bigger issue ,those peopl!e who.are happily plodding along won't post.

All we can do is keep getting the message to our fellow sisters that housework, catering and childcare is not the default for the one with the vagina. Because I truly believe even some women think this. They think is comes ‘more naturally’ to women which is bollocks.

And we need to be very mindful of the messages and modelling we (men and women) are giving our sons and daughters. If you are a domestic slave and your DH does fuck all, then you are probably condemning your dd to that fate too.

Also time for women to stop trying to be ‘top of the class’ domestically. Start saying no a bit more, handing over the reigns of childcare more, sitting with their feet up more, trusting men more. ‘I don’t know what’s for tea - what are you cooking for tea?’ ‘No, I don’t know where your shirt is, you’ll have to look for it.’ etc etc.

In other words - stop enabling lazy men and expect them to step up and do their bit.

I'm not feeding the wind-up merchant but anyone who thinks this subject is stale should read this. Never mind 10 years old this was written 52 years ago but the story is exactly the same: caringlabor.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/pat-mainardi-the-politics-of-housework/

@Sublimeursula
Well it’s a “parenting” website
but yes undoubtedly more women
so I guess my point is my original one… so stale and simplistic.

Maybe dismissing the last vestiges of the effects of a long established patriarchy is, in itself, stale and simplistic.

Men have been able to exploit women for centuries.
That is finally coming to an end.
Some men people really dislike the notion of true equality, especially when it means their gravy train is coming to a standstill

@Youraccountisnolongervalid my MIL in the past has come up to me and told me in my own house that something needs doing. My DH sitting in same room was not asked. Makes me laugh. She also sees it's my job to feed the children not DH. I will teach my sons that they have to muck in. My mum never asked my brother to do chores, only me. It's sad.

@timewp that is tough. The children will see in time who was there for them. My dad was like that which was worse when his head was turned. Whilst I am always happy to see him when he saunters in and out my adult life, it's my mum I have utmost respect for. Your children will work it out.

The answer is on that exact thread. The OP says ’I'm one of these women that keep telling myself I need to leave, but I never will.’

They do it because we let them.

Surely a lot of it has to come down to how these men were raised. Not blaming women again, as boys are also raised by their dads. I think if they grow up in a home where they see their mother, being respected by their father and vice versa, that they will grow up to be respectful of women, I'm not sure if they even have to see their dad doing a lot of work in the household. I think a lot of it is down to respect. If they see their father respecting their mother, and if their mother expects respect from them, that they will grow up respecting women. Boys who turn into men who respect women will be more likely to pull their weight in the home and be good partners.

It's not as simple as that though is it. I don't believe for a moment that every man (or any man?) who's been dumped by his partner for being useless has had a big moment of going OH NO I SHOULD BE A BETTER MORE EQUITABLE PERSON and gone on to be a more equal partner to someone else in future.

Conversely if I stopped doing owt aruond the house I don't know whether my partner would ever dump me for it. He might just put up with it. That's not why I do things - I do them because it's the right thing to do!!!

They get an easy ride because their wives let them! Lots of complex reasons why women do, but ultimately that's the answer.

I'm amazed at some of the things people put up with, and the amount of mediocre relationships people stay in (men and women).

I think this is similar to my situation. Mine was always good at equal sharing of time off work when the DC were ill but less good with housework. But I’ve stepped back on several things including present buying for his side of the family and organising meet-ups - I’ve had a good hard look at his my DB and SIL do things as he does all those things for our side of the family and always has done.

Because the women allow it. They set their bar low.

My partner pulls his weight. If I feel like he's taking the piss, or me for granted, and pull him up on it he'll sometimes say that he 'does more than most' of his friends.

I'm like 'bitch, that's their wives lookout. Not happening on my watch'

TBF, I saw a real shift in my partner during the first lockdown. Before then, unexpected childcare due to illness during the working week would have fallen to me.

If it's any consolation there are plenty of selfish, disloyal, lazy, manipulative, grasping, cheating, backstabbing, shitstirring and abusive women, too.

If you think about it, if one or two are on MN they will be telling us all a tall tale about their husband and the best MN users can do is take it at face value and try to be supportive.

It's to be expected that we see one side of the story because it's mumsnet. That's how it should be... but don't forget that on any given day the majority of people who are having a perfectly ok or even lovely day with their DH or DW aren't seeking out a forum to tell you about it. Don't let it grind you down.

Absolutely.

What do these feckless men lose out on? There always seem to be women with low standards who nevertheless will sleep with them, become pregnant by them, do housework and cooking for them, hand over their money to them, and in countless cases without even the legal protection of marriage.

So where is the incentive for men to shape up?

Also, frankly, what sort of people are raising these men? I'd love to see a sociological study done. In my extended family a man would be shunned if he were a cocklodger, lazy parent, shiftless, etc. The men I know take pride in their ability to support a family and juggle multiple responsibilities. Hell, my father would be 95 if he were alive and he did housework, cooking, etc. because both parents worked.

Until or unless there is a personal cost; if they can't get female companionship, sex, family, etc., nothing is going to change. Women need to raise their standards.