So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

Not necessarily, but if the person doing the sahp role and the person fulfilling the provider role are effective and well suited to/happy those positions, and there is mutual love and respect, it's something well worth doing.

@ConcordeOoter

The same is true of both parents working.

🤷

Neither have much impact one way or the other on outcomes for children (when all other factors are removed) with the added bonus of better outcomes for equality

I think a dedicated SAHP is not something everyone is able and willing to achieve, you do what you can.

It is neither here nor there in terms of equality, unless you make a sexist assumption about who is doing it, and demean the sahp role as something lesser.

@ConcordeOoter

Given that 98% of sahp are women it's not much of an assumption to be aware of the impacts the role has on equality.

The role is just parenting. No different to any other parenting choice. Not lesser or better but certainly has drawbacks and not something that should be promoted as an ideal.

It's obviously too easily achievable for some men to reap the benefits to their career by having a sahp.

What benefits? Surely the financial benefits are shared by the family.

Considerations on whether work is strictly utilitarian or hedonic or a blend of both. For instance, in our household, Dp's business is purely utilitarian, and my role despite longer hrs is hedonic. I enjoy my job. Dp, not so much, he does it purely for the money.
Plus it enables the family structure to function.
Whatever the choices a couple with children make the distribution of the benefits and burdens needs to be taken into consideration.

It is neither here nor there in terms of equality, unless you make a sexist assumption about who is doing it, and demean the sahp role as something lesser.

It clearly does effect equality because the SAHP is removed from the labour market and is unable to function without the working spouse (unless they have independent income). They are therefore completely dependent on the working spouse so by definition not equal.

This isn’t a value judgement on the work a SAHP performs it’s a simple statement of fact. One partner can leave whenever they want, the other can’t without significant impact to theirs and their children’s quality of life.

Sigh.
You have misread what I was saying. I made it clear I was talking about parents of teenagers who put no childcare in place, because the child was supposedly old enough to fend for themselves.

But perhaps this has gone off on a tangent to the main discussion which is about the different roles and workloads that men and women take.

@Mark19735

You are right that so few people seem to understand the basis of scientific research, what data is, what anecdote and observation are, what information is, what a theory is, and that truth is not synonymous with a published paper.

But your final comment about creationists is just snarky and unpleasant - it doesn't help the discussion.

@Stillcountingbeans

Sigh back.

I haven't misunderstood what you're saying.

You stated that you had no difficulty understanding that having a sahp had better outcomes for children, based on your apperent assumption that only sahp talk to or cook for their children and very limited anacdata about some parents who work long hours with no other childcare support

All I'm saying is that your understanding of sahp giving children better outcomes is flawed and wrong. For obvious reasons.

@PrincessConstance

Ive no idea why you keep using your own relationship as some kind of proof. It's completely irrelevant.

The benefits of being able to absolve yourself of all childcare requirements is obvious.

theres a lot of useless and selfish women too but if men set up loads of threads on it They would get interpreted as mysogenistic and would probably flag up somewhere.

Well you're also perfectly at liberty to report this thread, so not sure what your point is.

Snarky and also ridiculous given that he was the one that claimed that men had "evolved over thousands of generations" to have careers and women had "evolved" to do housework. And that horrible feminists had "ruined this equilibirum". 🤣🤣

And yeah, thanks Mark but I think that given my job is mainly driven by data and statistical analysis I have a pretty good grasp of what constitutes evidence and how that differs from your unsubstantiated - and at times absurdly laughable - claims.

In replying to my point you quite literally made the type of assumption I specified as "unless".

I'm going to assume you were polite enough to read my comment before replying and are just agreeing with me.

Maybe, or maybe not, but men shouldn’t even be on here anyway so the point is moot.

Mumsnet is open to all - men and women.

I would love for Mellymoon to start a thread explaining their position and reasons - it would be great fun!!

The void that you occupy, hence you heard me.

@ConcordeOoter

Sorry I am not clear why you think I am making a sexist assumption?

I’m not making any assumptions whatsoever about the sex of the non working partner. It could be a man or a woman. But it’s demonstrably true that if you don’t work, you don’t get paid and therefore (unless you have private income) aren’t financially independent. I’m not sure what’s controversial about that?

It happens also to be true that most non working spouses are women.

Hence the comments from other posters about equality. A system which incentivises one partner to become wholly financially dependent on the other and where the dependent partner is almost always a woman, cannot be considered equal.

This isn’t to denigrate the work that non paid partners do. But you can’t duck the fact that the dependent partner has no financial autonomy.

Found the female misogynist!

Ooop, no, he's an incel. We're talking about the WELL KNOWN BY EVERYONE issue of men not being adults and doing the stuff they should be doing and this one person has to come and remind us, as if we don't already know, that some women are bad. Thanks, Einstein! But this is about what women should do about the pandemic of lazy, selfish men.