So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

I didn't know you were the thread police, who appointed you?

Nailed it.

I never understand this outrage from the self proclaimed 'good guys'.
If you're a good guy, then clearly no one's talking about you, are they?
And if you're a good guy, aren't you outraged at the bad behaviour of the bad guys? You must know they exist.
Surely you should be pleased that women have a place to vent and get advice and support, not want to silence something just because you think it doesn't apply to you personally, or worse, try to turn it into a woman bashing thread.

As others have said some men just don't care about, think about, or want the same things out of life as some women. I don't know if there's a specific reason for this, or even if it rings true across society, but I know far more untidy/unorganised men than I do women. And when you get one untidy/unorganised person living with a tidier/organised person there's always going to be a clash if you are expecting the other party to change to suit your way of doing things. It also seems to me that, in general, the less tidy/organised person is the one who is expected to change how they live to satisfy the tidy person.

That said, I'm also aware that mumsnet isn't a reflection of real life as people in happy relationships don't tend to post about them. I'm also sure that if you went on a male dominated forum you'd find plenty of "my wife's a useless arsehole" posts to counter the "my husband's a useless arsehole" posts we get here.

The only way I can see things changing is if men and women only settle down with someone who has a similar lifestyle outlook to themselves.

hero worship received if they are a single parent

Especially given that a lot of men should not be in sole charge of children.

That is another thing that happens that seems to be invisible to some. A decent amount of men are so intellectually or emotionally unsuited to parenting without support that they rationalise it as something else, anything else, lest their little ones come to harm.

That's probably partly because the patriarchy raised them to be emotionally crippled and unable to say "I need help" because that's how men should be, or conditioned them mentally fir fighting, or spoiled them rotten, any of which is a great way to ruin a human being.

You are right- it is stale! Which is exactly why we should be talking about it.

What do you think we should be doing about it?

studies have backed up that in households where women are the main earners, the woman also does the lion share of the housework. It’s only where couples
earn the exact same amount that there’s any equality.

lots of people going on about their perfect partners ( and some of them might be), but the overwhelming trend is for men to see housework as women’s work (and do less of it as a result).

Knew a girl who when she got married just dug her heels in. REFUSED to do it all. Started as she meant to go on. Made her own side of the bed and washed her own clothes and not his. He came from a very traditional home where his mother did everything for him and was very typically a man's man. They're still together nearly 30 years later and everything is split down the middle. It wasn't without its difficulties but they appear happy together.

A very good and underrated point. I recently read this that is relevant to it: The Guardian: Mum watched me correct my husband, then sagely warned me: ‘Don’t become the expert in the baby

When my kids were young I took exactly the same view as your DH. Time is too precious for that sort of busyness. I also had to fight bloody hard not to get sidelined in parenting decisions, managing the kids etc. I was insulted by it. It's hardly surprising that many men just go with the flow instead.

Sadly, there's a lot of truth in that.

Women need to be more choosy right from the dating stages and "weed out" the useless/selfish ones. Most of the time all the signs are there, but we seem to think we can change them. Newsflash - we can't, the useless/seflish ones will still be useless and selfish when married, when parents, when jointly buying a house, etc.

I cringed with my sister's boyfriend and then husband/father. I could see all the signs, but she was "in love" with him (more like infatuation or just liked the sex!). He'd constantly let her down, lie, but it was OK because he'd buy her flowers and chocolates occasionally! Inevitably, once they had children, he "suddenly" became unreliable and selfish according to her. No, he didn't, he was just the same, it was her expecting him to change that was the problem!

For many women it’s the time after having a baby that things start to become uneven.

You start as equals, both with careers. When a baby comes along the woman gets to have a lovely long holiday maternity leave, and there the work divide starts. The mother takes on more of the household tasks because she’s the one at home. Even when/if she returns to work the father doesn’t often pick up his role within the house, and even if he does tends to ignore the mental load stuff - I’ve seen this so many times it’s predictable.

You may decide to become a SAHM, because nursery fees are the same as your earnings. Heaven forbid you have a disabled child which can give you very little choice but to become a SAHM, then everything falls to you.

By this time you’re in a situation where you are no longer financially independent, you have little leverage because he works. Don’t get me wrong, many women are happy with this and keep going. Many can afford to hire cleaners or regular babysitters. For others though, you’re trapped. With a man who sulks if he doesn’t get regular sex. Who sighs when he has to contribute to housework. Who gets all defensive online if you call this shit out.

Of course this isn’t all men, but from what I’ve seen it’s the majority, but too many women support this imbalance.

I have MN to thank for avoiding this! I avidly read AIBU and the relationship boards in my 20s.

Tbh I have sheer luck to thank for avoiding this, but only through reading the MN relationships board did I discover how lucky I'd been.

I had decent role models, I had what I thought was a decent man. How wrong you can be!

Hey - @Stillcountingbeans

A lot of the time it goes like this:

A 20-something couple rent somewhere together, both working.
Then biology kicks in and she they think about a baby. He quite likes the idea of 'being a dad' just as much as she likes the idea of 'being a mum'.
They might think they understand the reality of nappies and lack of sleep, but actually neither of them have got a clue.
Then baby arrives and he steps up to the plate. He knows that he'll have to pay for more things, and that he now has three mouths to feed, but he accepts that he has entered into a twenty+ year commitment, so he knuckles down, works harder than ever before, goes for promotions, and just accepts that the early starts and long commutes and all that stress are worth it because he loves his family dearly.
But, this isn't good enough for mum, who sees everything through the lens of having 'lost' her career, her previous life, and resents dad, who she believes is still enjoying all those things. Obviously she still wants the nice things - house, car, holidays - that two people used to be able to afford when paying for two, but she doesn't appreciate that one person paying for three places a greater burden, both financially and psychologically, on dad ... because she's never had to. Starved of adult company, she offloads all her woes and tribulations onto him at the end of each working day, without realising that he is carrying a day's worth of stress and pressure and needs to unwind. To him, the dishwashing or the hoovering are quite possibly the least important things in the world. They row over trivial things. Life rapidly becomes unbearable for both of them.

If the baby is lucky, the parents work through it, mum appreciates what dad is doing for the family, and they stay together.
If the baby is unlucky, dad leaves.
If the baby is really unlucky, dad is driven away, and mum shacks up with a new man and this drives a wedge between the dad and his DC. But that's OK, because several hundred MN posters think it's what passes for 'therapy'.

Unpopular opinion: women can change this issue.

I seriously believe that. If women didn’t put up with it from the word go, then men wouldn’t do it.

So you move in together and after a month you realise he’s not done the laundry, hoovering, changed bedding, bins etc. He’s done nothing without a prompt. So what do you do? Do you take it as a major red flag and give a final warning and then move out immediately when he continues to do nothing? Or do you ask him nicely to do his share, continue to prompt him and then sigh and do it all anyway because he ‘doesn’t see mess’ or ‘doesn’t do it properly anyway’.
Then 5 years down the line you’ve got kids and he’s still a lazy ass but also a lazy parent.

If women just upped and left after saying it once then the next relationship the guy gets into you can bet your bottom dollar he’ll be up and carrying his weight from the word go.

The same way most women won’t tolerate a man who doesn’t shower or brush his teeth, if we don’t tolerate lazy behaviour then he won’t be the norm.

the worst thing for me when friends complain about lazy partners is that their partners aren’t even brilliant elsewhere. I’d get it if these men were ridiculously hot, filthy rich and generous with massive cocks. But they’re not. They are basic in every way. Average jobs, average looks, average money and mediocre sex. So why?

Funnily enough most the women are running a house, raising children, holding down a career and also nice enough looking. Yet are hooked up with men who do nothing other than go to work and expect a that to be their only contribution.

Then both the men, women and society in general comeback with ‘but they’re a good man’, why? ‘He doesn’t cheat, do drugs, smoke, be violent, have a criminal record. See he is good’

But if a woman had kids and her only contribution to the family was working 9-5, not cheating and not having a criminal record but nothing else, then she’d be slaughtered!

Id love to say the onus is on men to be better but realistically why would they when they can get away with doing the bare minimum and still be praised as a good man?

The only way to stop it is if they can’t even get their foot in the door of starting a family and relationship without being an equal contributor to begin with.

rant over.

Are you ok?
Poor, poor men.

I really dislike the men bashing threads. Perhaps because I’ve been lucky with the men in life or made good choices. Why do women put up with poor behaviour? Why stay? Why marry them? Why have child after child with them. We ourselves need to take some responsibility too!

@Winterday1991 totally get it. I'm a woman, married to a woman thank god, and although no relationship is perfect I realise how lucky I have it compared to so many women stuck with useless, lazy blokes

We’re giving birth to them and raising them this way….

@Mark19735 The 1960s called, apparently you're living in the wrong time??

It’s not always straightforward to leave.
Not all men are feckless fucks until after there are children.
If you’ve been brought up in a household where women take on the mental load and, like in most households, there is a primary parent, a default parent, that is highly likely to be the mother, and so girls and boys learn from that.

I’ve seen so many young women smug about their choice in men, then after they have children it all changes, even when they too are working. There’s often resentment over maternity leave, and even though there is now an option to share leave, very few men do this.

Thanks for that mark
thread closed everyone

sorry women we got it all wrong
the lazy, loveless, useless bus out there - the ones watching you break your back to do everything - are actually the victim in all this

fucking hell, I feel so silly

Thanks again mark
best wishes for the future

I have this internal argument with myself a lot. I work part time husband works full time. I do 80% of the house chores during my week day days off, prep food etc for when we are both working, and when he’s off on a weekend and doesn’t do any jobs it does make me really cross. But then he’s amazing with our child, is so comforting with her and patient and will wake up during the night with them and get up early etc, can do any decorating and diy he puts his hand to. I think it’s about playing to your strengths, I like my sleep so he’ll get up, and he doesn’t give a shit if the throws are straight on the sofa so I do the cleaning

I am sworn off men now.
Very jealous of your set up 😂

I too recommend marrying a woman.

I think this is true. Is it mostly men or women cleaning the toilets across the land?