So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

@SamanthaCaine

No.

Im saying someone who is not a parent and has admitted to not doing any step parenting because they have a very important job and the child's actual parent does the bare minimum required isn't qualified to comment on the reality of full time parenting to children you are solely responsible for

That has nothing to do with finding mental load over exaggerated or difficult

Fair enough.

@SamanthaCaine

The only issue I have with what you've written is that companies really don't value these people (EA's and PA's) as much as you're suggesting as the pay isn't great.

You’re absolutely correct about the pay… although actually senior AEs can earn much more than this.

And the reason they are of course routinely paid so much less than a “strategic adviser” or a “head of business development” is, wait for it, because these are jobs almost exclusively done women.

They are (incorrectly) still often seen by hiring and recruitment people as an evolution of the classic 1960s secretary. They are actually more than this but because they are women people think they should be paid less.

EAs not AEs

Absolutely this. Never entangle finances, never live with a partner. See them when you want to. That way relationships continue only as long as they are fulfilling and nobody gets trapped.

They only get away with it because of the women allowing them to. If you marry/have children/Co-habit with a moron then that's on you.

If people are picking poor life partners that's on them.

So it’s not on the moron for being a moron then 🙄

Well it's a two way street isn't it? Sure the lazy partner needs to stop taking the pi$$ but being equal means that you're perfectly entitled to air your grievances. If you say nothing then you're part of the problem. Unfortunately.

Isn't this what we tell men if they stay silent and don't call out crappy behaviour they see.

I agree. Woman's work again.

Unfortunately, organisational work of this nature is a bit paradoxical. It's valuable, but not really. Unless you put 'CEO' in the title somewhere.

Perhaps that's what we need. Give it a flashy title and package it up like office work

A Strawman comment, a deliberate misrepresentation in order to assume the high ground.
If you find making a bed hard then I'll repeat don't ever enter the workforce. Keep making them buns.
Or has Dp says 'bollox to bun sales'.😂

What really annoyed you is a man noncomplaining, managing his children the home, and his business without resorting to wine or whining.

@PrincessConstance

How is it a misrepresentation?

How do you actively parent your step children?

I haven't mentioned anything about beds or buns.

Im not surprised your Dh manages the home, children and business.

It's not hard for everyone, as you say, especially not when you do as little as you can get away with.

But again, that is completely irrelevant to the op.

I'm still sort of surprised by how "mental load" has been taken by those arguing it's not important as just remembering a few things. Maybe "mental load" needs to be rebranded. "Wifework"?

Making the bed isn't hard. Making ALL the beds, doing all the washing, organising all the childcare, negotiating all the playdates, doing all the meal planning, monitoring all the food/clothing/school requirements, rearranging all the schedules, researching and booking all the holidays, renewing all the insurance policies, calling all the tradesmen, preparing for all the concert/worldbookday/dance costumes (and making them), planning all the birthday parties, organising all the birthday presents, researching all the new appliances, monitoring all the homework, implementing all the SEN strategies, offering all the emotional support, etc etc etc etc is all time consuming. And that's before the day to day reality of cooking, cleaning, school runs etc.

And having money, which, reading between the lines, I think PrincessConstance has, makes it a lot easier. Here are some examples of me vs my much wealthier family member:

When I book and plan a holiday, I spend a LOT of time researching, comparing prices, considering options, and how to make it cheaper/more practical around me and DH's self employed jobs. When my sister books a holiday they discuss where they'd like to go, she googles "luxury hotel/ luxury villa in [insert place name]" and books it.

She has an auto-top up facility for her DC's school dinners - every now and again she might remind them they should not be spending too much but it's no biggie. I can't do that becuase if DS accidentally overspends I need to know so we can talk about it because I can't afford to add £30 a week to his account.

She has cleaners, and housekeepers and nannies and all the rest so when she needs new bedding or wants to try a new acitivity, she has time because she's not spending hours a week doing the cooking and cleaning and general maintenance.

She has the same "mental" load but the actual effort involved in actioning all that is significant less than what I have.

Agree 100%.

I’m no longer a spring chicken but if I was I would never have gotten married to a man. My advice to young women growing up now is to choose another woman/women as your life partner/s and live together in small family clusters. If you must have children then do as somebody said previously, find a male specimen with the best genetic profile you can and get what you need to. Your life will be infinitely better without a man, don’t make the mistake us older ladies did by buying into the bull fed to us by the patriarchy.

He didn’t complain so much he divorced his wife because of it 😂

So in these small female only clusters, what happens when someone is not pulling their weight with the chores and 'mental load', what if one of the women prioritises their super high powered career over others in the 'cluster' by working late or travelling a lot? Are you really assuming that women are incapable of being crap, lazy or prioritising their own self interest over others?

Oh I’m sure they will be able to work it out for themselves. Funnily enough, us women are capable of ironing out our differences and working a solution to a problem that doesn’t involve clubbing each other over the head.

"Princess" Constance commenting on what it's like to raise children when she has no children and admits she's never cared for any children either is about as relevant as a garden snail's opinion on NASA's development programs.

So in these small female only clusters, what happens when someone is not pulling their weight with the chores and 'mental load', what if one of the women prioritises their super high powered career over others in the 'cluster' by working late or travelling a lot?

I know it appears to be difficult for you to comprehend, but women are capable of being both present for their children and having very successful careers, as I explained to you earlier in the thread. If men are so pathetic that they think doing both is impossible then they make themselves obsolete.

'admits she's never cared for any children either'.
No, I think you're letting your imagination run wild, when did I say I have never step-parented or been involved in parenting? When did I ever say I do nothing at the home, I didn't.
I gave a brief insight into how we manage right now whilst I've taken a step up into a leadership role (Started last September).
We don't have nannies, cooks, or cleaners either.
A poster is now trying to convince everyone booking a holiday is a mental load.
I'm genuinely lost for words.🙄🤔

This begs two questions:

• what sort of men are we bringing up in our society, and how might we do it better?
• what motivates women to marry these unsatisfactory men, and how might we bring up women with the strength and self-respect to say no to them?

People generally comment on here that men often only get to these lofty career heights by having a partner at home supporting them by doing the lions share of parenting and managing the household. Generally speaking, those people who are partners at law firms, running hedge funds and managing multibillion pound projects (very successful career people) do not get there by running out the office door at 5pm and working a typical 40 hour week and having free weekends. Not a problem if you are single but trying to wrap the demands of those careers (massive overtime, extra training and qualifications, international travel, being in contention for promotions etc) with a family is extremely difficult without a lot of support (partner, parents, external). Hence my question about how will a 'female only family cluster' organise themselves when one or more of them has different priorities be it career progression or say sporting goals (i.e something that is a time rich commitment)? You also did not answer what you do with a female member of the commune who is lazy or does not pull their weight? Your utopian premise is based on all women in the commune being roughly equal in terms of hours they work and their availability to equally contribute domestically to the household/commune.

I imagine on your second point it is the same reasons why many men marry unsatisfactory women, low confidence and low self esteem with side helping of societal/peer group pressure to 'settle down'. I am in my late 40s now and have seen too many of my male and female friends, family and work colleagues marry absolute fucking twats. It was clear these people were absolute twats when they first came on scene and continued to demonstrate such twattish behaviour when they moved in together and surprise surprise became even bigger twats post marraige and children.

No actually, I was pointing out that booking a holiday is just yet another task that has to be done and can be time consuming. Which, if you're already doing a million other tasks including holding down a job, cooking, cleaning etc, can feel completely overwhelming.

And the implication was that if you are doing all of these actual tasks or the extra things while your so-called DP is sitting around watching the football, it can be pretty quick for the resentment to set in.

When I was single, booking a holiday was fun. I could spend days on it. It was part of the enjoyment of the holiday. Now, I'd LIKE to enjoy it, but I have to fit it in between all the other shit I'm doing including running my own, successful business, parenting, cooking, cleaning etc. And I'm not even one of those women who has to do this all alone becuase my DH is very hands on and does his share.

@DanseAvecLesLoup

in these small female only clusters, what happens when someone is not pulling their weight with the chores and 'mental load', what if one of the women prioritises their super high powered career over others in the 'cluster' by working late or travelling a lot? Are you really assuming that women are incapable of being crap, lazy or prioritising their own self interest over others?

It’s a fair question and I actually disagree with @SandraCumin in that I don’t think women are automatically better able to sort this out because they are women.

But the critical difference is that heterosexual women are not going to be romantically entangled with other heterosexual women and will not be emotionally invested and financially invested to the same degree.

So they can share support and help each other without the weight of expectation and dependence.

I don't find working full time in a hugely stressful job, parenting and doing 'life admin' that difficult.

I don't struggle to fit it in. Im a bit baffled by people who do. (usual caveats aside)

But that is not the point!

It's not my job or responsibility to do it all. Regardless of how easy or hard it is.

Im honestly not sure how we've got stuck on this completely irrelevant point