So angry at all these threads on useless and selfish men

[Winterday1991]

Off the back of the thread where the H refuses to care for his sick child so the OP can get some much needed rest as he is on annual leave from work 😡. I am seriously fed up of reading threads like this, why are so many men so selfish?

Why is it always women who have to do the lions share of caring, pulling themselves in all direction whilst their male counterparts glide through life uninterrupted? Why is it always women who carry the mental load for family life and the men just show up. Why is always women responsible for maintaining the household?

Even in the 21st century, why do so many men get such a bloody easy ride, whilst often their poor wives/partners are running around like headless chickens keeping on top of everything.

The problem is the scheduling. You NEED to leave flex in the schedules to deal with the inevitable issues.
Some people are not managing either their lives or expectations. Wake up.

@TiredButDancing

Exactly.

There's always an excellent highly strategic reason why it makes more sense for the woman to do it.

I've been in two LTRs in the past two decades. My ex husband, who earned a third of what I earn, was a domestic neanderthal. He was an OK cook but that was it: he couldn't do any child-related task without a barrage of questions. Any discussion we had about our child's needs begun with the phrase: "You need to do x". I couldn't go out because "she needs you". I had to do all drop-offs and pick-ups because he "couldn't get the time off work" even though his work was a side-show. He never did medical appointments or picked up prescriptions. He did shop but only with a detailed list from me. He could never remember to plan any social stuff whatsoever, even with reminders, and double booked everything.

Even so called "good ones" do it. My current partner is a million miles better than my ex-husband. He proactively cooks, does housework and childcare etc and never complains about having to do tasks but even he asks pointless questions when I'm obviously not placed to deal with stuff. Like when I'm working he will come in and ask me if there's milk, when the fridge is less than two metres away and will ask if I've been in touch with the electricity instead of taking the initiative to do it himself.

It's just absolutely endemic. They are all, to some degree, like this. Not many of them now are such cavemen they won't do anything any more. But getting them to actually become the domestic project manager, the "white collar" person that Mark was talking about and getting them to be the person with whom the buck stops is a whole other ballgame.

No no, you're totally right. It's MY fault that when DS needs an emergency dentist appointment I didn't have enough flex in my schedule to accommodate the only 2 appointments the dentist could do. Absolutely MY fault.

Also my fault when DS destroyed his PE kit and we needed new kit urgently that I didn't leave flex in my schedule for this.

Oh, and it was ABSOLUTELY my fault that I didn't leave flex in my schedule to accommodate DD's dance festival and the additional practices she needed to do.

ALL MY FAULT.

Sorry but this is bollocks. You can manage your calendar and create as much "flex" as you like in the schedules and creates spreadsheets from heavens to Betsy but you can't plan for a child springing a vomiting bug on the day you are giving an essential pitch to a prospective new client.

It's not bollox.
Dp runs his business for this purpose. He's always taken the initiative, agreed with his ex-wife, and now me.
Children create dilemmas, head this off by making a lateral agreement about who is going to pick up the slack. If and when this arises. It's NOT possible for most Paye roles to allow enough flex to accommodate life.
Square pegs round holes, trying to force children to fit in with business doesn't work.
It's not about fault.

@PrincessConstance I think you are missing the point of the thread.

Do you have kids @PrincessConstance ?

Case in point thread about a husband booking his wife and 2 year old in economy and himself in business class on a long haul flight and on different flights on the way back, would any mother ever do that?

Hun do you realise most people don't run their own businesses and therefore have little choice on when they can flex?

Honestly just tone deaf advice.

So everyone who has children should be self-employed? 🤔🤣

Has there ever been a single case on this earth of a man doing something altruistic or for the benefit of anyone but himself? I know I can’t think of any.

Not sure if you are taking the piss.

I guess we need to ask why men find it so easy to absolve them selves of this stuff?

Why they see children in particular as low value

Or why it's presumed 'womens work' (regardless of the actual career/work. ) is presumed to be less. Or non existent

The sexist presumptions so far that women shouldnt complain because either they don't work or if they do it's not has hard as the carpet fitter man 🤣 and that housework and childcare is easy (I suppose that is debatable depending on multiple factors) can get in the bin.

We need to do way more to change these attitudes. But I doubt we will

No I’m entirely serious. Been on this planet long enough to know that selflessness is a very feminine quality and for good reason.

^^ This.

The sad reality is that that the 'mental load' crowd don't seem to understand where the value in this enterprise really resides. They think that the amount of work they do is a significant source of that value. They don't appear to want to acknowledge that the value added by the coach is where the team's success comes from. In this scenario, the title of 'manager' doesn't mean the poster is strategic or important. They are clearly in an admin support role. Admin support is a commodity. People who can do that are a dime a dozen. What matters to the parents and the children is whether the team plays well, and ultimately, whether they win. (Yes, yes, ... it's the taking part that counts ... but winning counts more). The person who delivers that is the coach. That is why the coach's other needs outside this team are accommodated. It is to enable the coach that the team manager role even exists. This person is the donkey in this scenario. Any apparent unhappiness stems from the mistaken belief that "mental load" merits disproportionately greater credit than in fact it does.

Sarina Wiegman .... she's priceless. All England knows her name and will remember it for a long, long time. What was the name of the person who organised the Lionesses' kit washing? Or booked their transport? Or dealt with their menu planning? Hmmm? It doesn't matter ... because it's not game-changing. And neither is remembering that DC wears size 4 shoes or needs a dental check up.

(And ... disclaimer ... just in case the hard of thinking knee-jerk to the 'you're so sexist' retorts - I'm presuming the coach is a mum. Might not be, and it doesn't change my argument about white-collar and blue-collar either way. But I'm sure someone will jump down my throat anyway)

Surely you must know you are talking complete rubbish.

This with bells on.

Sorry - made a mistake. Didn't clock the pronouns. Was reading on a smartphone on the train and missed it. Wasn't falling prey to unconscious bias - was very conscious of it. Anyway - the point still stands. It's not the sex of the person in either role that matters, it's the nature and the value of the work being done, and the mismatch between the expectations for credit/reward/thanks in return for carrying mental load, and the reality that this is basically just admin.

That doesn't apply in a family because in a family it is the welfare of the child that IS the value added. The dad who earns millions, but whose child dies of pneumonia because the dad didn't take on the mental load of keeping track of how long the kid was sick, noticing the child's cough was going on too long, looking up on google how you tell when a cough is bad enough to justify a doctor visit, of rearranging his schedule to get the child to the doctor, that dad is a failure as a dad. Now, that is probably pretty infrequent, because in most cases there is a mom who DOES notice those things, who DOES cancel her work meetings for today because of the cough, who DOES take the kid to the doctor, who DOES cancel the next two days of her own work because child was hospitalized and is required to have a parent stay with them in hospital, and who also does take the hit in career progression because of it. Now, that mom likely will have much less career progression and earn less money than the dad who couldn't be bothered to do all that mental load. But the mom here is the one whose work is essential and important. The dad who scoffs and says it wasn't, only reveals that his ego and earning power are more important to him than his child's life.

Fortunately, there are lots of men who recognise that their highly paid work is actually the less important work in the family.

It doesn't matter ... because it's not game-changing. And neither is remembering that DC wears size 4 shoes or needs a dental check up.

It matters to the child what shoes they have or whether they get a toothache.

Mark is essentially saying that his children and their needs don't matter to him (not sure if he actually has any or not).

No you should manage your schedules to mitigate or not create deliberate conflicts. Get your priorities in order.
Oh you want to add a 30-60 hrs career to your life with children. Of there's no time or energy. Talk about time deaf.

What you're asking doesn't exist.
Mental load is a nonsense concept.
Picking shoes, getting children ready or planning Xmas is Not a job.

If your so unhappy stay single, don't have children or leave your partners.
Then you can do it ALL in your own.

Good luck with your endeavours.

Haha. You are such a troll. Only a troll can be this offensive, this casually. Because yes, coach is key. But without this administration support (which isn't dime a dozen) the team simply wouldn't exist. Good leaders know thus. Bad ones don't.

So you are troll or clueless. Not sure which.

Just read that thread ... what an absolute trash can fire.
It starts with a misleading thread title, but that doesn't excuse the 405 posts that follow. All reeking of entitlement - "How dare he expect you to slum it in premium economy".
Zero consideration of the actual factors that would actually matter ... like financial probity on the part of the employers' paying for the flight, or even more critically - safety considerations. . . Not one person asked what the OP's husband actually does in his work. Is he a power station engineer going to work at height and inspect high-voltage overhead power lines, and needing to start work the same day he arrives? Is he naval architect, going to meet an oil tanker stricken in a foreign port and needing to sign off an inspection test on a crack in the hull - something that will involve confined space access in a non-respirable atmosphere? Who knows? Because not one of the 405 posters even thought to ask.
The presumption is that he's a lazy shit, she's a QUEEN, he doesn't respect her, and that she should leave him. Leave a bloke who thinks to take wife and kid with him on work trip ... because he didn't also think it necessary to pay for premium economy tickets for them.

All this chat on this thread about mental load and how getting the right fitting shoes for DC is critical to the survival of the species, and on a parallel thread we have ample evidence of why so many MNetters are simply not worthy of the top jobs, or deserving of the respect they think they are entitled to. All they care about is status, and they haven't a clue about the things that actually matter.

Sad fact is a single male living on his own is capable of that mental load and will be able to using the washing machine and dona awash, get it dried and put away at the right time. Will be able to check what food has rub out and go do a shop, notice the bathroom is dirty and clean it along with other areas. Remember to buy birthday or Xmas presents for family and friends. Rememeber to book in appointments. And so on.

Then many get married and either revert back to not knowing how to do it or deliberately not do it unless asked. Funny how they could do it all themselves before without being asked.

End of the day they are mature adults there is just no excuse really.

Ahh we should all just get our priorities in order that will sort those men out!

I’d love to hear Mrs Mark’s side of the story.