To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

[NeedToChangeName]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

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The longer this is kept in the public eye, the more politicians will know that it's a concern

These males are just like any other women....

fgs, if society really thought they were women, they would be telling these males what they tell women:

"all this moaning about possibly being raped and attacked in the male estate- not all men are like that! Stop vilifying men!"

"You cannot insist on being protected because of the occasional bad apple! Anyway. Possibly those men are only raping other men because of their identity issues, be kind."

"A few males yes will get hurt, but it's for the greater good that this happens and society requires males to just crack on and accept this."

"Reframe your trauma."

Ghastly isn't it? Appalling. But this is how society treats women. As opposed to very special males.

Oh and "ok ok, we'll protect you from the convicted rapists of men . But the rest of the criminals have to be given the benefit of the doubt. If you get hurt - and can prove it and CPS feel like doing anything about it, and it actually ends in a conviction a year or three later - well, then we'll remove that criminal from your shower."

It’s not going to work. We can’t separate by dress / feeling it can only be by sex

Not only due to potential crime but for dignity and privacy

We need to consent and don’t

REPENT MOTHERFUCKER!!!

What is it that scares you about making life easier for this small minority of people?

Because to do so, life is made harder for 50% of people.

A friend of my DS is non-binary, near-trans-man, though natally female. I would not like to see them, if convicted of a crime, incarcerated in a male prison either.

Not just harder, but demonstrably more dangerous and unfair.

But these people always know who the women are when it comes to deciding whose safety and fairness don't matter.

No. There should be a third section within the prison estate, for trans people.

Putting trans women in women’s prisons was using women prisoners as lab rats, to try to prove that it was safe to let trans women - including those who were still fully biological males - into women’s single SEX spaces. Let that sink in - vulnerable female prisoners deliberately housed with violent male prisoners, with no thought for their safety.

When the authorities talk of rigorous risk assessments, these only referred to the risk TO the trans women prisoners - not the risk that putting violent males in with women might be to the women!

Pretty much!

If society really thought twaw, males seeking medical help with transition would be prescribed some unpaid caring labour.

It really isn’t that hard to understand is it?

Unless you are in some way privileged to never have to conceive women’s needs.

@nilsmousehammer 'these males are just like any other women'

If a Women = adult human female
how can a male also be and adult human female?

You cannot say a male can't wear a skirt or dress and you can't define it by hair either so what makes these males the same as adult human females?

You might want to read that post again, and the one before it. 😉

My apologies @nilsmousehammer I was reading your post that someone else has quoted - that's what I get for skim reading while I'm meant to be working.😘

Its so very easily done, I've done it myself!

Funnily enough, because the prison service actually do know that it is a serious risk to the safety of a female prisoner to put them in a confined space like a prison with men, trans identifying females are almost always placed in the womens estate.

This is obviously how it should be but it is a shame that other women in prison are not considered in the same way.

As in sport, we have the anomaly where a trans identifying female can be in the same group as trans identifying males.

The problem is that the premise on which all this rests is so absurd that it's actually quite hard to satirise. It really is that ridiculous and since that's truly what they're saying, you often have to look for context to see if the person saying it is serious or not.

Clara has clearly been spluttering all day trying to come up with an explanation as to why a rapist transwoman belongs in a male prison and a violent female doesn't, without having to concede what the difference between them is. It would be funny if women hadn't already been raped and assaulted in the name of this lunacy.

@RichardBarrister the reassurance that there is some commonsense is welcome.

So you agree.

Transwomen are not women.

And as with all male-bodied, we can’t tell which ones will harm us just by looking at them, so they all need to stay out of our single sex spaces.

All of them, even the majority of harmless male-bodied people (e.g. our husbands and friends) must stay out of our single sex spaces, because none of them come with handy signs telling us they will abuse us.

No male-bodied people in women’s single sex spaces.

Trans rights is not the same as gay rights.
nor is it the same as civil rights, or women’s rights.

Because gay rights, civil rights, women’s rights, etc do not impact or infringe on anyone else’s rights.

Trans rights do impact on women’s rights.

Trans rights involve male-bodied people infiltrating our single sex spaces - places where we are often at our most vulnerable, such as changing rooms, hospitals, refuges, prisons. And also our sports.

Women do not consent to our hard-fought-for, and hard-won single sex spaces being infiltrated by male-bodied people.

How someone identifies is irrelevant, if they’re a male-bodied person. They don’t belong in women’s single-sex spaces.

The “spaces” obsession is embarrassing. Do you not know that trans people are already entitled by law to use your “spaces”? So I hate to break it to you but how they identify is not irrelevant.

I’m guessing you don’t have a job as you’d probably be sacked for that sort of nonsense.

Which of your “spaces” have been infiltrated recently? And which of your rights have been impacted by legislation protecting trans people’s rights?

@Clarabell77

Livid about a clause in benefits but utterly dismissive of actual risk of harm to women

What are trans rights?

Which of YOUR needs, rights or even “spaces” have been impacted by the current laws protecting trans people? Don’t start about prisons, we’ve done that to the death and I’m assuming you’re not in prison. YOUR needs/rights/spaces? What’s the impact been?

Clara why are you so angry at women who are pointing out that we have never consented to males in prisons, women only areas of rape refuges, women's sport, women's changing rooms and toilet facilities ?

If males are already using those spaces it is without consent.

Women are being impacted by males in our spaces and sports. There are dozens of stories about that impact. It takes a lack of imagination and caring about females to think that we aren't impacted.

So stop trying to convince people that the advancement of the rights of males must continue because it's already happened. You don't give a fuck about women. Just own it. If you cared about women you would be angry that males have invaded women's spaces without consent and you would be fighting, as we do, to make those spaces single sex as they should be in a fair society.

So unless we have been personally affected we can’t object?
Bollocks, I have a voice and I will use it for women who can’t - like those you reference who could be fired for stating basic facts for example

@Clarabell77

impacted by the current laws protecting trans people?

What are these laws?

Why do trans people need laws to protect them?

Why do their 'needs' trump women's?

So no examples then? I thought as much.

So it’s only women in prisons then? How heartwarming. What other work have you done to protect their rights?

Don’t bother replying, I already know the answer.