To think trans women don't belong in womens prisons for women

[NeedToChangeName]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64444530

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No Y chromosomes in XX chromosome places

“What you’ve quoted her saying is basically trans woman don’t pose an inherent threat to women, well, they don’t, and to think they do is quite bigoted.”

Quite bigoted you say? Well, how about that??

You really are selling it here!

You do realise that you seem to be avoiding the fact that they are MALES! And if MALES in general pose a threat to women, then all groups of MALES are considered at least equal!!!

“It’s a bit similar to the “all refugees are terrorists” type thinking.”

Oh dear!! You thought this was a great gotcha, didn’t you?

You do know that refugees go through checks before being allowed to live in the community? Did you forget that part?

And you know what? If a refugee was of the MALE sex they too would be considered a threat to women in prison too!!!

What rape clause?

It’s funny that the people insisting violent male rapists go to female prisons and gain access to vulnerable women have no other arguments than insults and scolding. Surely they must have been blessed to manufacture a coherent argument after all this time. Calling people transphobes doesn’t wash anymore. The word has lost all meaning.

I think she means the benefit reforms that restricted claims to a woman's first two children, unless the third was conceived via rape. Totally impractical sop being paid to the reality of pregnancy in coercive relationships, and personally, I recognise the same women on MN posting about it as I do women in prisons.

Don't remember clarabell though.

Thanks neighbour!

Now I get it. Yes, you are spot on - how many woman would even admit they are in a marriage where pregnancy could be coercively used.

amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/data-shows-900-women-in-uk-affected-by-tax-credit-clause

yes. I understand now thank you.

Still doesn’t make your arguments any stronger though and not relevant to this thread. Unless you think this is a Whataboutery thread.

It’s interesting that whenever there’s a vote added to these questions it’s always 5% voting to destroy women’s rights. Not 10%, not 2%. It’s always 5%!

That means there’s at least 30 people who think it’s ok, but there are never 30 posters putting their arguments forward. Are these people unable to articulate their reasoning or is it a quirk of the voting system that 5% is a low as it can go?

I was comparing society’s early views on gay people with the current views on trans people so in that sense it’s not a false equivalence. It’s something different, you don’t understand it, it doesn’t feel right, so it must be wrong…

I don’t feel threatened by trans rights, and I genuinely don’t understand why it makes the likes of you and JK Rowling so very angry. What is it that scares you about making life easier for this small minority of people?

Also, I don’t think anyone, anywhere has argued that someone who has raped two women should be in women’s spaces, so stop with the sensationalism. The prison service needs to look into all aspects of a persons background and make a decision on where they go, surely that’s the case with any offender.

@Clarabell77 soyou don’t believe transwomen are women if they say they are? You know that makes you the same as us lot and JKR right? Either you believe this violent male rapist is a woman, because no one would ever pretend to be trans, and therefore belongs in female prison, or you believe transwomen are not women, self ID is a very bad idea and people will lie about being trans? Which is it? Are you on the side of a violent rapist or vulnerable women? That’s what it boils down to.

It’s something different, you don’t understand it, it doesn’t feel right, so it must be wrong

But we do understand it. We understand that “gender identity” cannot be defined without the use of regressive stereotypes. We understand that humans cannot change sex despite claims to the contrary. We understand that the internal feelings of people are being placed above objective reality. It’s not at all like homosexuality which can be clearly defined: same sex attraction. As a result, the rights of homosexual people can be clearly defined: not to be discriminated against for being same sex attracted.

But what is gender identity or gender reassignment? How does one “live as a woman”?

What we don’t understand is how vague concepts that cannot be defined based on the inner feelings of men can trump the biological reality of sex.

Also, I don’t think anyone, anywhere has argued that someone who has raped two women should be in women’s spaces, so stop with the sensationalism.

actually @Clarabell77 up until a few days ago that is exactly what she SNP and a lot of gender ideologists we’re saying. Because self ID means that that rapist is a woman. Why do you think the rapist got transferred to a female prison first? That’s not what happens with males without a trans identity who rape is it?

so either TWAW as you claim and a huge miscarriage of justice has been done, or TWANW and do not belong in female spaces? Which is it?

You don't seem to understand at all.

That is exactly what it means - people who were men (or women with penises) who rape go to women's prisons. It's already happening anyway, this was just bad timing from the SNPs point of view.

I don’t believe anyone who has committed violent rapes should be in a women’s prison but I don’t believe all trans women are violent rapists pretending to be trans to access women’s spaces so I’m not going to start vilifying all trans people.

The rapist in question will categorically not be in a women’s prison and that’s the right outcome for that situation.

These recent events have happened under existing law, nothing to do with the proposed law in Scotland around self ID.

But are you saying transwomen are not women then? Because if transwomen were women they’d belong in womens prison whatever the crime right? I mean, if Myra hindley and rise west were put in womens prison, and they were cold blooded killers, why wouldn’t this woman be housed in female prison if transwomen were women? Either all transwomen are women all the time, or none are. Which is it?

No one is villifying all transpeople

I do have to question why people are still trying to defend males in female spaces

And why trans people aren't doing more to defend women's rights

Why they are OK with women's rights being eroded to this extent

It’s something different, you don’t understand it, it doesn’t feel right, so it must be wrong…

Too right it doesn't feel right.

You are asking us to put a man's feelings of innate gender identity (which no one can define and can't be tested) above the safety and dignity of women.

I was comparing society’s early views on gay people with the current views on trans people so in that sense it’s not a false equivalence.

Sexual orientation is not the same as a persons inner identity.

I find it extremely offensive that you compare a man's right to be seen as he wishes including the right of the man who self declares as a lesbian to call a lesbian a bigot for not wanting to date a person with a penis.

This is coercive control. You will do what the man wants.

How on earth people cannot see this I have no idea.

Or perhaps they do and simply don't care because women should do what men tell them, t'was ever thus.

I don’t believe anyone who has committed violent rapes should be in a women’s prison but I don’t believe all trans women are violent rapists pretending to be trans to access women’s spaces so I’m not going to start vilifying all trans people.

No one believes all transwomen are violent rapists pretending to access women women’s spaces. No one has stated this. No one has vilified all trans people for this because no one has said this.

What has been said is that there is no way of knowing which trans identifying males are pretending. What has been asked, and I’ll ask you: how do you propose we tell the difference?

And what has also been stated is that regardless of intent to rape, women prisoners deserve privacy and dignity from males, even those who might be nice, white collar criminals. Do you not believe this?

Watch this video of a young female athlete forced to change at a swimming pool with a male and how that makes her feel. Now imagine you’re forced to do it, day after day after day. Do you not feel shame for making women experience this?

https://twitter.com/j_ashworth656/status/1620392433623388162

I was comparing society’s early views on gay people with the current views on trans people so in that sense it’s not a false equivalence.

Of course it's a false equivalence. They are different things, with totally different implications. Gender identity is not sexual orientation. Access to sex specific spaces is another thing entirely.

I just can't fathom the lazy thinking behind this point. Can't you just sit down and work out the implications for yourself, rather than conclude that 'this thing is exactly like another' despite this clearly not being the case.

Or perhaps they do and simply don't care because women should do what men tell them, t'was ever thus.

I think, subliminally, this is playing a huge part

I love it when someone plops in to tell us all we 'don't understand' and then proceeds to prove their own ignorance by disputing arguments women have never made. I guess that's what happens when you allow yourself to be educated by twitter. Perhaps you should engage with women rather than parroting what some TRA posted on SM.

I've reported the poster @danascully96 , who keeps throwing c*s around so freely, they obviously don't realise its extremely offensive and on mn we don't do it.

Well done, no need for it. Lots of anger and aggression on this thread.

Where?