Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

I wonder how she'd react if you rang her and said that you were worried about DH? That he's still very upset about his father, stressed about having to take time off work to drive her as she can't take the train, and finds conversations with her triggering especially when she mentions FIL's last days in such detail. Would she be able to then consider his emotions or would that still be too hard for her?

The key thing I think is not to feel so guilty and accept that you can't "solve" this and that her anger isn't actually your fault . It doesn't sound like you have anything to feel guilty about

This. It’s very true

Agree. I tend to lose sympathy with people who wallow like that.

She must be only a couple years older than me, and I have a busy, active life including full time work. She needs to get going and live life. And get counseling.

Maybe but as her son has a wife, children and a job his free time is in short supply. So a better use of his time is working while she herself the train, rather than him using up a day's holiday each time. That's outrageous to expect him to do that.
Then she saw him and refused to speak to him for half her visit so she wasn't so interested in spending time with him then!

@SoShallINever indeed but for many people a) the monthly salary is important, b) work.provides a purpose, c) if they are absent from.work.for more than a cpl of months work is likely to send them to OH, suggest support to help them heal or if there is no chance of return they are dismissed through I'll health capability. IME most people return to work when the full pay expires unless they are severely ill.

It's not the sadness, it's the rude and entitled behaviour.

Expecting pickup and delivery by a son who works & has small children and housework to do, when a two-hour train is handy?? Ridiculous and self-centered.

She should have built more of a life when FIL was alive.

The grieving isn't the issue, its the rudeness and petulance.

She has a son with a family and his own stresses and to think that he isn't suffering having to juggle grief and a busy life, needs pointing out to her.

Behaving like a spoiled brat because her son has asked her to take a train is not reasonable IMO and he does her no favours by not pointing it out.

Her son and his wife are not punching bags for her grief.

They want to support her and are trying to but her behaviour is driving them away.

Rather than allow this grow and get worse, I really think a conversation needs to be had, before irreparable damage is done.

The OP is dealing with a lot.

Oh dear, Im sorry you feel that way. I hope your DH is in excellent health and you have many years together. No thats not passive aggressive either, I really mean it.

But, your second sentence is concerning if you would refuse any help following a life changing occurrence then your going to make the people around you miserable too.

Sounds like she has PTSD? I think all you can do is say something like “MIL, we can’t talk about FIL’s last days any more as we both find it upsetting. You obviously feel the need to talk about them a lot, perhaps that grief group might be worth looking at again?” or similar.

Personally I wouldn’t get her to take the train in her current state, but that’s clearly personal and there’s nothing wrong with it per se.

I know it's true for some that losing a partner is worse than losing a spouse, but it's equally true that some men replace a spouse within a year.
You only get one mum/dad.

Grief and loss are hard, and very individual, but some people's grief is self pity not bereavement.

But this MIL is making zero effort to get help, giving her also bereaved family the silent treatment and expecting absurd levels of coddling.

I'd make any future visits contingent on her getting counseling.

Think you’re getting a lot of interesting views here from people who are probably in the position that they wish to have a 6 hour round trip made for them rather than them offering to do one for their in-laws.
especially if it involves taking annual leave or calling in sick. Really can’t imagine so many people would be willing to do this! So I’d park that and say that’s definitely not a reasonable request. She is totally capable of making the trip herself and it’s really difficult to know where to set the line for how much you do for them in the aftermath and for how long this goes on. I think a year is fair otherwise there will be NO end to this. Have seen this first hand.

Secondly, she’s pushed people away over the years probably because of how she acts. Grief gives her no right to make your husband the punchbag.

Did she state the reason she didn’t speak to your husband for 24 hours when she arrived? I would address that in case it was just the train or more to it then from there you can manage everyone’s expectations of the next visit or whether it’s worth delaying it!

No advice but sympathies OP. My Grandmother was very much like this after my Grandad passed away, it wasn't the grief which is entirely understandable, it was the demands on people, bitching about people who she felt didn't offer enough support, bitching about the people who did, and the endless sulking and guilt-tripping if she didn't get her own way.

She talked relentlessly about being bored and lonely, which I'm sure she was, but aggressively rejected every gentle suggestion of things that might relieve those feelings. We tried literally everything over the years but all of it was met with utter derision, acting as if we'd suggested she take up skydiving, not a local coffee & company group for widows and widowers. There really is only so many times you can try and help someone help themself, no matter how sad their circumstances.

She'd always been a selfish and difficult woman and grief made it 100x worse. My poor Mum, grieving herself, took the full brunt of it as she's an only child and I was abroad, and after a few years my Grandmother had fully alienated every friend she had left (some of whom she was wildly insensitive to when they lost their own husbands).

Every day that passes feels like I am leaving DH further and further behind, I can't even bring myself to call him my 'late' DH because, to me, he's not. I am not ready for groups yet either. And I do want to rehash his last days over and over because I think I have some kind of trauma over how he died but I don't because I guess it's not socially acceptable.

This is exactly the reason bereavement counselling services, provided by trained volunteers who've had bereavements themselves, exist. It's often free, sometimes a minimal payment. I know, because once I'd sufficiently come through my complicated bereavement I trained to be a bereavement counsellor. My role was to sit and listen to people talk about their experience week after week after week until they'd processed it and were able to move on — often to another aspect of their loss. I was there to listen to the things people felt unable or unwilling to burden their friends with. I was there to listen when people went over and over their loved-one's last days and hours time after time. I'd go every week, sometimes for 18 months or more. All in confidence, all under the supervision of an experienced counsellor and psychotherapist. Bereavement counsellors don't tell you what to do, they mainly just listen.

Google local bereavement services in your area and ask if there is someone you could talk to about your DH's last days. You don't have to manage on your own, holding your distress. Good luck.

@turquoisepenguin Your MIL sound like my Mum.

I have no suggestions, except that my mum got progressively more verbally agressive and physically violent (I had to duck when she threw a vase at me) so I went NC for my own MH and safety.

Oh, and the "I'd rather he died of cancer". Speechless.
My dad had cancer for a decade and died of it in spite of all his other health probs. It was the worst death I could imagine. I hope one day, when my time is up, to drop dead in Tesco (or anywhere else tbh) and know nothing about it.

Op’s mil may well think this and she’d be viewing it through a warped lens for her ds is not her emotional support animal. He has feelings about the loss of his dad and responsibilities too, including a full time job and children. It is also crucial he protects his mental health in order to be able to support his mum and allowing her to train him to do her bidding helps neither of them.

It is understandable and commendable that he did the journey back and forth for 18 months and ludicrous that a retired woman begrudges a 2 hour train journey. If she wishes to be driven, she could pay a taxi firm specialising in long distances and if she wishes to talk to her ds alone, they can go for a walk, relaxed drive or a meal out. In all of this, there are children involved and it is vital to protect the children from toxicity.

To be of any help to your mil, you both need to put your oxygen masks on first. Boundaries are therefore of the utmost importance.

18 months is still a very raw loss. Of course she will never ‘get over it’ or be the same again. But as time goes on it will be much better for her if she can develop a better way of responding to her situation and relating to people.

Many people of 64 have full time jobs, children just leaving school, elderly care responsibilities of their own and do all that whilst struggling with their own grief and not enjoying the physical good health of your MIL. I am not comparing how people cope but just trying to create perspective.

One of the good things about visiting people in her situation is that it actually sometimes does you good to have to put on a brave face for short bursts as you try to move forward, eg. In front of your grandchildren. It does people good to focus on their family and giving support to children and grandchildren.

On the other hand bear in mind that she is alone most of the time and has to develop coping strategies for that which she can’t simply snap out of just because she is at your house. So watching television for hours would be understandable to me.

It sounds like she is alone too much and gets worse in that time, shorter more regular contact would be better but obviously not easy. Maybe your DH could go by train for a weekend one night stay once or twice a month for a while?

It also sounds like a combination of grief and a difficult pre existing personality, I mean not speaking for hours re the train is ridiculous and absolutely inappropriate, not just a part of her grief. That is something I don’t know much about but very difficult.

I think it's very unfair to the Op, too.

She's tolerated a lot. MIL is 64, not 84. She needs to take responsibility for her own state of mind and stop expecting others to sacrifice. There are myriad avenues of help/therapy and she's categorically rejecting them all.

With grief can come real anger.

She sounds angry to me and any perceived slight is a vehicle for that.

However the OP and her husband are not emotional punching bags for this and it IS reasonable for them to establish and enforce boundaries in what they will accept.

"Mum we love you but you will have to work with us or our relationship will suffer. You are in pain but so am I. You need, and I need you to look at getting support for you in your grief so that we try and learn to cope with it and move forward".

Forget tge March visit, you have enough going on.

That is a really nasty thing to say to the OP.

You’ve posted a fair bit about her recently - does she generally annoy you so you have less patience than you would if it was your own mum?

It's two six hour round trips as she will also have to go home. At 64 if she's in reasonable health a 2 hr train journey is nothing. If she isn't in tiptop health or nervous you can book assistance at the station.

P

I can relate to your post, as my MIL was the same age as yours when my FIL died 19 years ago. It was very sudden in his case, too, he died in a car accident. My MIL was in the car with him and was traumatised for a very long time.

For a long time, the only thing she would talk about was the police and how angry she was that they didn’t pursue the other driver. This is because she couldn’t accept the simple fact that my FIL had made the mistake that caused the accident, he pulled out without seeing the other driver in his blind spot. (It was late November, so he was probably blinded by the sun.) It was inconceivable to her that her DH could have made a mistake.

I tried to be supportive, but I was also supporting my DSis in divorcing her abusive XH, and obviously my DH was grieving as well. We were also TTC and coming to realise that we had fertility problems. (We adopted eventually.)

My DH’s DB and his DW had just had their third baby, and 3 DC of 3 and under, so the burden really did fall mainly on my DH. And, like your MIL, my MIL had been completely dependent on her DH throughout their marriage. Although in her case she did have friends of her own. She also has concern for others, which she didn't lose despite her grief.

She did eventually come through her bereavement and she now enjoys her life, particular her visits to her 7 DGC. But it did take up to 5 years to get to that point, so it was a long haul.

She never took the train, though. She eventually bought herself a car for local journeys and travels by coach to see us.

So it really might take a long time, but it doesn't mean that your MIL won’t get there in the end. At times, we didn't think my MIL would ever get there. But in the meantime, maintaining some boundaries with her will be important, otherwise it will be too much and you’ll only end up resenting her. I used to insist on limiting the number of days my MIL could staying with us to 3/4 days, as I really couldn't cope with more than that.

Your poor DH, OP. Rehashing his DF’s death over and over again with him; not ok.

MIL’s turned toxic cos her DH died. She’s foul to her son. Not ok.

You might just have to let her get on with life for a while.

Your entire post dismisses this woman’s’ grief, and you think this is ‘realistic’ ? She’s 18 months along a very hard road in which she’s lost her entire way of life and has to rebuild a new one. You are suggesting that she is deliberately exacerbating the suffering of others around her by her behaviour. I would suggest that it’s not that she’s rude and unpleasant, she’s grieving
and she hasn’t yet reached the point where she can consider other peoples’ feelings above her own, because when you lose a life partner the grief is all consuming. To suggest that she should effectively be left alone to get on with it at precisely the time she needs support is indefensible. Unfortunately we live in a society that shies away from discussing death, the consequence of which is that we are uncomfortable around those who are grieving - possibly because it reminds us that one day most of us will be in a similar situation. And as a result we end up intolerant of the grieving process, which results in attitudes like yours