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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

757 replies

turquoisepenguin · 29/01/2023 10:02

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

OP posts:
RosesAndHellebores · 29/01/2023 12:40

@Movinghouseatlast the OP's MIL is not entitled to claim her state pension before the age of 66. She could have been working full-time and would have had to pick herself up to go back to work.

I can also see that her DH might have been at the beginning of his retirement and she is also grieving for theirnfree time together and what they might have done as well as for the bereavement.

7eleven · 29/01/2023 12:40

The pp saying it’s only been 18 months….how long until not speaking to someone for a day isn’t ok? 2 years?

3 years?

It’s never ok to behave like that.

HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed · 29/01/2023 12:43

This sounds a bit like my granny. My grandfather died suddenly (although he did have a heart condition, but the heart attack that killed him did come out of the blue). That was 20 years ago. She's never tried to help herself and as time has gone on our sympathy has worn thin. As you say @turquoisepenguin she often, even now, wants to talk at length about his final 48hrs and the things she did that she could have done differently to prevent his death. She didn't have many friends or much of a life outside of my granddad and wouldn't get any help outside of the family after he died. As such it was all put on my parent and aunts and uncles, all of whom had just lost their father. She's refused all mental health support and pushed everyone away (and actually been quite nasty to us over the years.) Often gets angry we don't seem to miss him "enough" when- with all due respect because I loved my granddad deeply- he was an 85yr old who had been unwell. It wasn't like he was cut down in his prime. She also gets very angry at important moments (weddings, births, graduations, anniversaries) that we are celebrating the thing and not as depressed as she is that our father/grandfather isn't there to see it. This attitude put a cloud over the births of my kids and my wedding and those of my siblings and cousins.

Basically, I hear you because you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. Hopefully your MIL will change and come round but you might be in for 20 odd years of this if our experience is anything to go by and you need to protect your own mental health and your kids mental health from it. Your DH should have a serious conversation with her about getting herself some support, but if she won't you can't make her and you may need to accept that and distance yourself.

7eleven · 29/01/2023 12:44

pattihews · 29/01/2023 12:34

OP, I think you sound reasonable and sympathetic. I suffered a really traumatic bereavement (the kind where a policeman turns up at your door in the early hours and boom, life as you knew it is gone) and I went through a long period of grief and mourning. Three years before the grey began to lift, five years until I felt I was back functioning fully again. So I can empathise with your OP.

I can remember how difficult it was to get out and socialise again, even with supportive friends and colleagues. But even though it was a strain, even when I was very low, I managed not to be an arsehole. I wasn't much fun, but I could see that people's intentions were good and it would never have dawned on me that it was okay to be rude or demanding. And sometimes I'd even find myself having a laugh and forgetting things for a while and would go home feeling better.

If your MIL is unable to control her feelings even in the presence of her GC and unable to show you or her DS basic gratitude for what you can offer (she didn't have to take up the offer of the visit) then I'd suggest:

a) she's clinically depressed and needs help from a GP and probably a therapist
b) from what you've said she's a dependant, narcissistic sort of person and always has been, but FIL acted as a shield. If she can't drive she will have to get used to public transport. I'm 61. I drive and sometimes I use the train.
c) that she's one of those people who get stuck in the grieving process. Again, something that probably needs a counsellor or a group to help shift.
d) she is looking to your DH to take over his father's role and he needs to hold his boundaries. He has you and the DC to think of.

MIL's an adult and there's nothing you can do if she continues to say no to all the helpful suggestions you make. With luck time will help her get through this, and you may be talking years yet.

What I might do in your circumstances is say that she was clearly very unhappy staying with you and that it unsettled the children, so you'd like to put March's visit on hold. That might seem unkind, but it could be the prod she needs to start to think beyond herself.

I might propose a visit to her, perhaps over Easter. Could you bear to stay with her? If not, how about renting an Airbnb near her home and just call in for an hour or two? Perhaps your DH could help with gardening or DIY (I know, not much of a break for him but needs must) and you could all take her out and about locally and perhaps get her back into the swing of things? Good luck. You sound like a thoughtful DIL.

Brilliant post x

ZenNudist · 29/01/2023 12:47

Yikes you are getting a hard time OP.

i am a fan of being supportive but i also think people have to help themselves.

I don't think refusing to see her is the solution. Offer to have her over in March but say that if she is going to not speak to DH then she needs to rethink. Dh needs to say he appreciates she is grieving but so is he and it made the last visit difficult and unpleasant. Tough love time over the train issue. It is the height of selfishness expecting your dh to drive her. Absolutely ridiculous because its perfectly possible for a 65 year old lone female to get a train, many do. Am I right that it's a 6 Hr drive there and back and dh does that twice? Or is it 6 hours in total driving vs 4 hours total on the train? Either is unacceptable.

Thankgoditsfriday1 · 29/01/2023 12:48

Could you arrange a weekend break together? Somewhere between the two locations. The neutral ground and with things to do that don't involve tv or the burden on you to entertain may make it more enjoyable for all.

Cocochat · 29/01/2023 12:49

turquoisepenguin · 29/01/2023 12:04

I’m interested in all the perspectives on this thread and I understand lots of different angles but I just can’t get my head around this.

Why is not reasonable for her to get the train? She is 64 and physically fit, it takes two hours and one of us meets her at the station/drops her off on the way back (and as above DH actually met her part of the way this time). We helped her to book the tickets and talked through the journey with her, although it’s not particularly complicated. We both work full time and she is retired.

Millions of people in their sixties and much older get trains every single day.

As a one off DH probably will still drive her (e.g. at Christmas when she will have lots of luggage etc) but I just don’t see the issue most of the time.

Show quote history

I agree with you OP.

My dm was separated at 46 and had to use public transport as she couldn’t drive.
My dm is 87 now and has only just started to struggle a bit on her own on train journeys.
At Christmas my db put her on the train and dsis met her at the change point and accompanied her on the rest of the journey.

Your mil is just used to being driven everywhere. The sooner she gets used to public transport the better.

girlfriend44 · 29/01/2023 12:50

Have a heart she has lost her best friend. Grief does funny things to you.
How do you know your husband won't die and you won't be like that.

CecilyP · 29/01/2023 12:52

Redebs · Today 11:57
I don't think it's reasonable to make her take the train.

Whyever not?

Cocochat · 29/01/2023 12:53

@HerReputationMadeItDifficultToProceed I think your parents should have been direct with your dgm after about 5 years.
I’d be telling her that you all have to make memories and live your lives as happily as possible and she can either be part of that or stay away.

ColdAndSuch · 29/01/2023 12:53

OP, my FIL is like this almost 5 years on and the point about the obsession over the last few days being traumatic for DH is exactly where we are. FIL hasn’t once asked how DH is. Not once. No answers but sympathy for you.

dottypotter · 29/01/2023 12:53

Yabu and cruel.
Things will get better you need to support her and have a heart in the meantime.
Bet she has helped you out in the past with kids and things, she also gave birth to your husband. Mean.

pattihews · 29/01/2023 12:54

Have a heart she has lost her best friend. Grief does funny things to you.
How do you know your husband won't die and you won't be like that.

Because you're either the kind of person who does behave like that or you're not. I never did when I was bereaved and my mum and aunts, though clearly grief-stricken when my dad and uncles died, weren't like that. It's personality and DIL is sending out strong indications that she is someone who is always going to be aware of others. If you're self-focussed when life is good, you're likely to be even more self-focussed when things go wrong.

silvermantella · 29/01/2023 12:55

I don't get why people are suggesting OP thinks MIL should be 'over her grief' in 18 months. Nothing OP has said has suggested that. But it is unusual and unhealthy for MIL to have not developed at any stage along the grieving process in that time (or even got worse). It's not normal or healthy to not have any interest in anything, even your children or grandchildren, to punish you loved ones by sulking an ignoring them, constantly rehash over the last few days of the deceased life, not do anything for yourself, etc.

There are lots of widow/ers who have had to go back to full time work and carry on looking after their young children and much sooner than 18 months - that certainly doesn't mean they are over their grief, but that their own lives don't and can't stop.

The way MIL is behaving isn't helping herself and is adversely affecting the only relationships she has left. Presumably losing his father is the worst thing to happen to DH too yet he's had to get on with his life. He and his mum should be supporting each other, not her making him feel worse.

NamelessNancy · 29/01/2023 12:56

If she has always relied on FIL to drive her around her world will have become much smaller. I think it's actually muich kinder to support and help her to regain some independance by encouraging her to use public transport than it would be to leave her reliant upon your DH to drive her around. Especially given she's only 64. Might be different if she was 20 years older.

rwalker · 29/01/2023 12:57

I think I’d just suck it up invite her and it’s up to her
she need to get the train if any yo build confidence and independence

you will not change her

CrazyLadie · 29/01/2023 12:58

Natty13 · 29/01/2023 10:15

That's the thing though, if I put myself in someone else's shoes and wouldn't dream of being so rude then what? It actually makes me feel worse towards them.

Turn it round...look at one of your children and imagine sulking and refusing to speak to them for 24h sfter going to stay at their house? I can't imagine myself ever being that spiteful or sulky.

I'm not the OP but have been in similar with my exMIL and you cant help comparing to my own mother who would walk to the end of the earth to see one of her kids without a word. She's my rock and I try to model myself on the kind of mother she had growing up...therefore I would never dream to refuse to speak to my own child.

Show quote history

She is grieving, expecting normal responses is ridiculous

Redebs · 29/01/2023 13:01

Hadtocomment · 29/01/2023 12:22

@BungleandGeorge "Getting the train isn’t a big deal to you because you’re young and healthy and don’t have a mental illness. She’s already said she’s very anxious about doing it. She can’t just switch that on and off to suit."

But the positive here is she did get the train despite being anxious about it. That was a huge thing for her to do and perhaps she needs real praise and encouragement for having done that. She probably felt awful and her anxiety is therefore trying to emotional blackmail so she doesn't have to again, but that's not the best way of dealing with things you're anxious about. The only way out is to do these things a few times maybe in small steps if necessary, and gradually get less anxious about it.

Getting the train could be really really important in terms of her being able to do things and have a more enjoyable life going forward. The OP's DH went with her on the train part of the way, this is a very loving gesture and he is basically holding her hand whilst she does this very difficult thing for her.

I think rather than see the trip as a disaster, the OP needs to see it was a huge step forward. Her MIL achieved something that was very difficult for her. It was emotionally challenging but it will help in combatting her anxiety going forward. Giving up now because it was hard for them all maybe isn't the way to see it. Perhaps instead they really need to tell MiL how much they appreciate her coming by train, what a difference it made to them and encourage her to do this again. Expect the visit to be difficult, but it's only by doing these things and getting more used to them that anxiety can be combatted. If DH has to go by train with her half the way then this is the kind of step by step approach that could really help.

I think there is a big step forward that has happened here that needs acknowledging and that could make the OP feel a bit more positive, despite the fact it's so hard emotionally.

This.
And when she did master her anxiety and come to you exhausted and emotional, you were annoyed with her!

Seeing the family brought waves of grief because she probably manages it in her own home, but being with her son and grandchildren brought it all back.

The bit about her being sad that her husband will never be able to enjoy the children's drawings again is heartbreaking.

She was probably really anxious throughout the visit at the thought of having to face a scary journey alone and return to her and her husband's home without him anymore.

Fear looks like grumpiness and selfishness to an outsider.

Grief is a horrible, horrible thing. Everyone is different. Just because someone else's mum was all done with it after a few months, doesn't mean everyone should be.

Be compassionate to others. One day you might be hit by grief too. Just hope you are supported by patient and loving family and not made to feel like a nuisance.

amonsteronthehill · 29/01/2023 13:01

Grieving does not give people a free pass to be incredibly rude and engaging in 'the silent treatment' which is abusive.

Your husband is grieving, too. HER SON is grieving, too. She cannot be allowed to carry on in this manner in your home. It's not fair to any of you. It's also not helping her.

I would tell her she has to seek support and help because you and your grieving DH, who lost his father, too, cannot cope with her behaviour in your home again. You're trying to help, and she is being shockingly rude in response.

MrsSkylerWhite · 29/01/2023 13:05

amonsteronthehill · Today 13:01
Grieving does not give people a free pass to be incredibly rude and engaging in 'the silent treatment' which is abusive.

Your husband is grieving, too. HER SON is grieving, too. She cannot be allowed to carry on in this manner in your home. It's not fair to any of you. It's also not helping her.

I would tell her she has to seek support and help because you and your grieving DH, who lost his father, too, cannot cope with her behaviour in your home again. You're trying to help, and she is being shockingly rude in response“

I imagine that losing a life partner is harder to cope with than an adult with their own life and family losing a parent.

If OP were genuinely trying to help, they wouldn’t be putting a time limit on their understanding.

Fcuk38 · 29/01/2023 13:06

Obvs never had a close bereavement…. Not giving a shit is one of the first phases of grief. Bite your tongue and don’t take it personally.

RobinStrike · 29/01/2023 13:08

I understand the journey is really long for your DH but when my DF died my DM developed real anxiety about going anywhere alone. Travelling was impossible. I think it was part of the depression and she suffered panic attacks on the train alone, and even found it difficult if someone accompanied her. Is it possible for one of you to travel over by train with her and take her back? I know it's expensive and time consuming but you may find if she arrives feeling less stressed she may be more amenable while with you.
As others have said 18 months is nothing, and the comments you've made on going over and over the last months of her DH's life and looking at what they could have done differently I think is very common. My DM wasn't ever rude to us but she didn't ever really lose her depression in the many years she had left. She did adapt and enjoy being with family but it took a lot longer than 18 months to get to that point.

Clymene · 29/01/2023 13:09

No one has the right to inflict their misery on anyone else. She's grieving. There is help out there but she doesn't want it. And sucking children into your grief vortex is disgusting behaviour.

She isn't old and there's nothing wrong with her - she may well live another 20 years.

People think she deserves a special prize for getting a train and then sulking for a day either side to punish her son for not picking her up? Sod that.

Don't have her to stay again. It's not fair on you or your children. Your husband is going to have to give her some tough love.

catandcoffee · 29/01/2023 13:10

Your poor DH can't grieve for his Father. She is being a bit selfish to not think about her son and his grief.....grieving together would help then both.

Sometimes you just can't help others.
How awful she ignores her grieving son. That's not good for your poor DH.

Personally I wouldn't be pushing my DH towards a Mother who's treating him so badly.

Aishah231 · 29/01/2023 13:10

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 29/01/2023 12:07

The silent treatment is very rude, I agree. I can’t imagine being invited to stay with someone but then sulking.

I do perhaps think he should have gone to get her. I realise two hours by train sounds fine to a younger, working age person, but perhaps it’s daunting for her.

She's 64 and in good health? What's the problem?

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