Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

I know someone exactly like this who i used to work with, world revolved round her husband, he did everything for her. She admits its been a steep learning curve for her to pay bills etc. She's very lonely in the evenings bt does try to an extent. She volunteers for a day, used to be at vats rescue as she likes them, now at a charity shop bt she alzo did before losing husband.

She also has no friends and Never wanted to know her hubbys family and kids from before they were married. She has no kids of her own either. She has spotted a lady like her on her rd, not sure if she still speaks to her tho. She also has a bit of a sharp tongue and easily offends. I know another work colleague she saw all the time who now refuses to have anything to do with her.

She wont leave her immediate area which is one im working on as its not like her bt a casualty of losing her husband. They used to go to Cornwall and Brighton for holidays bt now nothing.

What I notice most is not that Yr mil shd talk to other widows bt any ppl of her own age. If she wont help herself, u do it for her. Sign her up for magazines of local things, there she be an over 55s group locally run by council etc who do outings locally or further away. Find their leaflet and send it to her. There's bound to be lots of groups local to her similar, find them for Yr own sanity. Even saga holidays catalogue, send her it. Don't let her know it's from u! Get hubby to stay with her for no more than 2-3 days, he can make it clear how it's obvious to u all that she doesn't enjoy coming to u so ur trying this instead. Don't ask if she wants hubby to visit, just tell her! And book yrself a long holiday abroad at Easter so she knows she has to fend for herself in that time as ur all away.

Most of all, don't make yrself so available to her, she will find someone else even to moan to. I keep telling my own mum that she needs to talk to ppl of her own age as she depends on me for everything 24hrs a day urgh!!

She clearly is depressed you or her son could maybe contact the GP expressing your concerns and suggest an appointment about something else this may or may not work.

You could gather some information about various sources of support, groups or activities that she maybe interested in. But unfortunately you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it drink.

65 is young enough for her to be able to get the train. My MIL now refuses to get the train but she is mid 80’s and this is only a recent thing.

Could your DH maybe go down and visit her for a shorter visit maybe two or three days on his own and see how that goes or could they (DH and her) arrange to meet somewhere for the day or a few hours say an hour train journey from her home and a shorter drive for your DH.

I feel for you OP - I understand your worry and frustration with how the last visit went. It would probably be easier for you if you were dealing with a DM rather than MIL because you'd probably have a closer bond which would allow you to both meet her in her grief when needed - and also push a little harder for finding ways to help her move forward.

I think it's easier to chivvy your Mum into a bit of fresh air and trip to the cafe than a MIL.

I know there was a lot of resistance and anger from her re the train journey but don't forget that was the first time she'd had to do it. She was jolted out of her comfort zone while feeling vulnerable. But that's the sort of thing which will get easier with time.

I'd keep offering the visits - maybe alternate with DH going to her (for shorter ones where he can see what help she needs around the house etc) - every time she takes the train it will get easier - and it will be a regular break from sitting at home alone in front of the TV.

When she visits I'd aim for 1-2 outings where you just don't take no for an answer. Sunday lunch which involves a short walk. Church? Drive and get an icecream with the DGC, etc.

And at least once a trip try to meet her where she is with her grief without trying to change the subject - let her talk it out, hug her.

I think the progress is going to be slower than you'd hope but I think you will see changes.

OP you’re getting a hard time here. My mum died 10 years ago and my dad was the same as your MIL. It was draining for everyone around him. Eventually I had to say go to counselling and I put some distance between us-it got so bad it was really impacting on my own mental health. Even now, he’s not exactly easy to be around-everything still very negative. But it’s difficult to know now whether that would have happened anyway. I don’t think your MIL behaviour can totally be blamed on grief to be honest.

In a very similar situation with my FIL, it’s been 2years for him and unfortunately it has got no better, in fact if anything worse.
He has family, he drives, he has friends, he “keeps himself busy” yet the grief and depression (yes it is depression) is worse than ever. Won’t accept help as such though I believe him to be on antidepressants (I don’t think they work…or he doesn’t take them!!!!) and it is truly heartbreaking to watch.
it peaked recently when he was rude to several members of the family and they had stern words with him as he would’ve had it been them to him. I think he got a bit of a shock but accepted what was said.
i don’t have any answers I’m afraid but know you have my sympathies. You are not wrong for asking her to take the train, spend time with you and I think that needs pointed out to her xx

OP I haven’t read all the replies although I have read yours. I agree with you that it’s not fair for her to be so rude and ignore your husband even in the depths of grief so I think not wanting her to stay again is fair.

But I just wanted to offer a slightly different perspective re the train. I agree there is nothing wrong with asking her to get the train if she is fit and able to do so. However, speaking from experience when I suffered a horrible loss I found I had huge anxiety about being in public places. It wasn’t something I was expecting to deal with as part of my grief as I’d always commuted into London and had no issues with being in busy areas. But after my loss the idea of getting a train or on public transport filled me with anxiety.

I can’t really explain why but when you suffer a loss you do tend to be on high alert subconsciously and kind of operate at state of heightened anxiety in case something awful happens again and being in busy places, such as public transport can feel too overwhelming. It’s part of the brains coping mechanism. Three years on I’m better with public transport although it doesn’t come as easily as it used to.

So that may be something she is experiencing and having done the journey she may have found it really overwhelming and a kind of sensory overload. If you feel able
to, I’d ask her if that was something she felt, in a nice way of course because it is hard to admit when you’re struggling with seemingly normal tasks. That might not have anything to do with it obviously but just wanted to offer my views.

People are saying "she can't be like this for the next 30 years". No, of course she can't. But do you not think that maybe you can feel like this at 18 months and eventually it will pass? Or do you have to be "gracious", the "good" kind of widow straight away or that's it and the rest of your life will be the same>

If she uses buses would coach be more in her comfort zone assuming one runs near you.

Could you have a day out together as a big family, somewhere that she might find interesting or interacting a lot with your children eg zoo, beach, science museum? Might help break her weeks up and have a little fun

I’m wandering if rather than making her train down to you, which must be horrendous when you’re depressed… either future visits could be done so that her son travels up, spends the night with her then either travels home with her or just spend a few days at hers with her,

I think sympathy and patience is required here… 18 months is nothing.. early days for her. be a little more forceful and insist she sees a gp, encourage her to join some social groups…. She NEEDS friends.

I lost my Dad in February, him and my DM had been married for 50 years. She threw herself into organising everything, joined a gym, went on day trips and even a few days away in the summer on a coach trip. It felt like I was closer to her than ever as before and understandably her and my DF did everything together. Then she started finding fault with everything anyone did for her, moaning about people behind their backs. I put this down to grief hitting hard once it sunk in and she wasn't as busy sorting things out. It has become upsetting though as the things she says are uncalled for and she was even saying things about me to my teenage son that I had chosen not to share with him. I have decided to kill it with kindnesses. If she is complaining about someone I say but it was nice that they did x, y and z etc. I did find myself not wanting to invite her out at times because I knew she would then go and find fault to someone else about me when I've tried to make sure she is welcome at all times.
The ignoring must be really difficult especially in your own home. I think if it happens again I would gently address it. I don't think your DH is out of order for having her get the train. 6 hours is a long chunk out of his day and for her it's only 2 and she's not having to think about work. If she's never had to get a train she probably feels put out or daunted by it but hopefully this will become easier for her and you can enjoy her visits more.

I agree with this. Grief for a much loved life partner is a long road. Perhaps you can pursued her to consider grief counselling during one of her visits. You could help her arrange it. The state she is currently in, she may not be able to muster the motivation to sort it out herself. Deciding to simply “not be around her anymore” would be callous.

It isn’t OP’s fault that MIL made FIL the centre of her Universe. She may still be grieving but she is wallowing and needs to move on and make a life for herself. It is unreasonable to expect her DS to drive for 6 hours and use up leave to go and pick her up when she can get a train. She’s in her 60s, not her 80s. If she won’t accept suggestions to help herself, I don’t see what more OP can do.

This isn’t the same,but my dad divorced my mum 33 years ago and she still brings every conversation around to talk about him!

When someone is in the height of grief (a widow can still be at 18 months, a son is likely to have moved on more than a widow), being rude, snapping at someone, sulking can be a normal manifestation of grief. When my father died, I was devastated. I found I had a crazy short fuse, way out of character. A few weeks after his death, I drove to a supermarket, parked my car and a driver parking a couple of cars down from me called over to me. I lost it and shouted an awful swearing mouthful at him. Turned out the poor man was only telling me I’d left my lights on. I felt awful, but had no control over it in that moment. This was entirely a manifestation of my grief.

In my opinion, you are being intolerant and lacking compassion for your MIL.

You need to think about HER!!!! I lost my husband nearly twelve years ago, he was only 60! The shock, even though he was unwell for over a year with cancer, I never thought he wouldn’t make it. I was numb. Disbelieving. Shattered! I carried on working, just to get out of the house. “Friends” disappeared after a while, couples we’d known disappeared! I was now an attractive woman on my own and obviously I’d be after their fat balding husbands!!!! No chance! But it hurt. This isn’t what I signed up for! It’s a totally different life. No one to chat to in the evening. No one to say, how are you feeling or get you a cup of tea when you feel unwell. No one to bounce ideas off. My son hardly ever calls, just texts, it’s not the same. I’ve begged him to call, especially at weekends. I can’t call him as they both work from home. Hardly ever hear from her. I retired age 71, and that’s another big adjustment. It’s not as easy making friends as you get older. Often they already have groups they see. It’s not like meeting other mums when your kids play with theirs. Frankly your attitude angers me. No compassion. How often do you see her???? Is it really that hard to pick her up and spoil her for a couple of days every few weeks. She’d look forward to it. Your husband needs to have a kind and understanding chat alone with his mum. She did everything for him once! You can’t put an old head on young shoulders and know how she feels, but for Christs sake try! She’s granny to your kids, they need to have a relationship with her. She won’t be there forever.

I really feel for you OP and I think people are being harsh and not reading your words properly. Firstly, you never once said you expect her to be "over it" yet people keep throwing that at you.
Secondly, I dont know why people keep suggesting support groups and counselling when you have said repeatedly that she absolutely refuses to participate in them.
Thirdly, grief can be utterly unbearable but it doesnt make it ok to lash out at loved ones and be rude to them as a result. Your husband is also grieving the loss of his father and I bet if he was ignoring your MIL and constantly snapping at her noone would be excusing it or saying it was understandable.

We are all responsible for ourselves and our behaviour. Grief and trauma can impact people massively and cause temporary personality changes and people acting out of character and thats understandable but its simply not ok to take out your anger for prolonged periods of time on your family. Its just not.

Of course she's not going to be over it after 18 months (you probably never get over losing a spouse) but when grief isnt processed healthily or gets "stuck" it often morphs into chronic dysthymic disorder which is a kind of low level, mild chronic depression/irritability. This can eventually lead on to full blown depression if left untreated or addressed and I suspect thats what happening here.

In terms of how you react, I would suggest a good balance of compassion along with personal boundaries. So, allow her to talk about FIL, suggest ways in which she might like to honour his memory (eg maybe going out for a meal at one of his favourite restaurants etc), indulge her tears and show her physical and emotional support but when she starts getting snappy or rude, gently say to her that its not ok for her to talk to you like that, please can she be polite and then end the conversation/leave the room if she is unable to adjust her attitude. You can do this in a very calm and assertive way, it doesnt have to be rude or harsh or punishing. Grief deserves compassion and empathy but it doesnt give you carte blanche to behave in whatever rude or abrasive manner you feel like and expect zero consequences.

Ricky Gervais sitcom about grief shows this well.

I am a widow. I don't ignore people for 24 hours or wail every day or bring every conversation around to my dead husband. I'd probably like to do some of those things but I don't because it would be horrible for those around me, I have kids, I have to work (if MIL was employed she wouldn't have 18 months off work or be allowed to be rude to colleagues), it's just not possible to live that life endlessly.

I honestly don't know anyone in my family who acts like this and many of us have lost life partners. I know people who have become depressed, lonely and so on but most have gone to bereavement 'clubs', counselling, written, moaned to the odd friend, gone on antidepressants, it's the fact she's not doing any of it and it's getting worse that's so problematic.

I don't equate this with a lost temper on a one-off, this is a more profound issue, which probably was there prior to the grief, it sounds like she had few friends and made her husband her whole life and now he's gone she has no idea how to Iive, but ultimately she either has to rebuild herself or over time everyone will move away from her, people won't stay around to be ignored, wailed at and depressed for many years because pretty much everyone loses someone (parent, partner, good friend, god forbid child) at some point and so you have to end up preserving your own sanity.

I didn't like Ricky Gervais' portrayal of grief precisely because in real life no-one tolerates extreme rudeness and hostility as a 'normal' manifestation of grief. People are more likely to turn their sadness inwards and feel hopeless or like life isn't worth living. Ricky Gervais' character was a dick, and probably prior to his wife dying as well. No-one is great just because their partner died.

I know it's hard to hear OP but 18 months is nowhere near long enough to get over the grief of losing one's life partner.

Coincidentally I lost my DP 17 months ago and I'm still coming to terms with it even now, so I totally understand what your MIL is going through.

As advised by my GP I have undergone counselling which has been a help. This may help your MIL to begin coming to terms with her loss too.

Whatever happens it will take some time, just hang on in there and be there for her when needed.

I don't get the impression that the OP is expecting the MIL to be over the death of her life partner in 18 months, just not to enter her home and not speak for days on end. At the very least this is disconcerting and unhealthy for the children and I wouldn't have it around mine, especially as they have their own grief to deal with.

I do think ypu sound like the world's worst person. However i do understand both sides.
It took me a long time to get over my mother's death because I felt guilty for putting her in hospital where she subsequently died. Thankfully I had my stepfather to talk to and finally when I was ready a bereavement counsellor.
Perhaps your other half could go and stay but steer the conversation onto fun times with your FIL. My sf and I had many a laugh because believe me my mum was not perfect and at times downright rude without realising it. We just rehashed those times and over the years the pain has eased somewhat.

I can’t imagine loosing my husband and I get that she must be absolutely devastated and no one’s trying to take that away from her but I really feel for you and your husband! It’s so draining when someone wont try and help themselves, and you’re on eggshells all the time. Also you poor DH! He’s her son no matter his age, and he has no space to grieve for himself. I actually think you need to be firm with her, and stop letting the rudeness slide, because it’s not acceptable to treat people like this regardless of how you’re feeling. I suffered losses and I completely get it, but it’s not a free pass! And she’s ruining her time with her grandchildren and there’s no need for it!

Would she go to family bereavement counselling with your DH? Maybe if he went up and took her she might be inclined to give it a go