Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

my username says 81 that means i was born in 81. Where does it say i’m 20? Thousands possibly Millions of people die in their 60s every year, it might be sad but it’s not unexpected or tragic. No doctor would think it was shocking it a completely plausible possibility.
” taken too young” is melodramatic and ridiculous!

@MistressoftheDarkSide I do totally get what you say too and wish you well . In a totally different direction but kind of relevant was when I discovered totally by chance about 6 yearsago that my H 11 years previously had been sat writing poetry and songs about a young women we knew well who did some work for us. Real mills and boon stuff- We had always had a very close slightly codependent relationship- he had always said that I was his 'soulmate' and all that gubbins- something inside of me literally died when I found all this stuff and I turned into a far meaner, far more matter of fact non sentimental person than I had been before (mid 50s by this point) - I built up friendships too so I felt less co dependent. He had done this stuff literally at the point his mum was dying. Grief or shock too does affect people in different ways and some people can simply become pretty unpleasant to be around or flatter versions of their previous self or as in my husbands case do stupid things or rush to replace the void in their lives. I don't really have an answer. I always think of the carpenters song 'end of the world' - the lyrics are poignant- my father in law had a new partner within 2 years (who has since died too) and he was actually a different person after my MIL died- more generous, way more into doing stuff -I guess everyone is totally different -

look at the office for national statistics the stats go from 16,000 per year for 50-59 then jump to nearly 60,000 consistently year on year between 60-69, because 60 isn’t that young! why do people have to be sentimental instead of being realistic and sensible?

I also agree that if you are married and living with someone for 30, 40, 50 years in a happy relationship, you are emotionally inter dependant. I do not see how you can't be after so long.
I have been married for 31 years. I have lots of friends who I socialise with every week. But I do depend on my partner emotionally.

My mother was exactly like this to the point where I couldn’t stand to be around her. I lost my husband two years ago - widowed much younger than she was - and her sympathy level was zero.

maybe leaving her to come to terms with it would be better for everyone. Call her but keep your visits to her to a minimum. My mother wants to rule everyone because my father is no longer there, to the point where I have no relationship with her. I don’t like being in her company. Don’t allow your MIL to call the shots and manage the mood.

She hasn’t dealt well with her husband’s death but she’s the only one who can do anything about that. Life goes on and we have to move with it.

I wouldn’t be having her to stay in March.

The ONS shows the average age of death in the UK is 81, so even your own source dsagrees with you.

When DF died, DM who lived in a small town, couldn't face going to the bakers or the newspaper shop as she was worried about breaking down in tears.

Whilst staying with her, I pushed her to do these things by gently suggesting that even if she got upset the first time, the next time the conversation would be about the weather. Then I went with her to support her a few times. Of course it was incredibly hard, she had cared for DF in the years before he died so her own world had shrunk.

But those conversations helped. Gradually she built up confidence and joined clubs. She made friends and had a lot of support from people her own age with life experience including other widows. They could support her in a way that I couldn't. I don't think formal counselling would have been for her but the support of her friendship group became a way forward.

I don't know if that helps OP - it does of course depend on whether MIL would be open to it.

Bloodywhitecat

No that's so unfair for him and for you. Xx

@LavenderHillMob That was kind if you going with her to the shops initially.
I think OPs DH could go with his mum initially on the train so she could manage it by herself.

@LavenderHillMob my DM moved into a retirement flat closer to us after DF died. The majority of residents are widows, some residents have also become widows whilst living there. They give each other support, and can discuss their late husbands in a way they probably can't with family

I don't know anyone who thinks dying at 60 isn't taken far too young. Very odd post. As I said please don't say silly things like this in RL to adults as you may find yourself in a heap of trouble.

No idea what you mean by silly and sentimental it's facts. As you have now been told.

The words I said are the words I meant - if you wish to infer something else then that’s up to you. I am not ‘comparing’ different levels of grief or implying that one is ‘worse’ than the other - although quite a few posters actually have said this, including one who actually said that the death of a child trumps all, and I don’t see you calling them out. I have said clearly that as far as I’m concerned there is no hierarchy of grief, it’s different for everyone according to who they have lost - no one type of grief is ‘worse’ than any other, just different. The OPs husband has lost his father but he still has his wife and family for support. He’s grieving just as much as his mum, but his life won’t be impacted nearly as much as hers because she’s lost the life she had and has to rebuild it - there are stages of grief that are common to all, and the death of a life partner has a huge impact on the life of the person left behind. There are quite a few posters agreeing with this, and with the fact that 18 months is not very far into the journey.

Grief can turn around and hit you again even harder when you get to the acceptance stage - usually in the second year after the loss. From what the OP has said, it sounds as though MIL is going through that now - hence the weepiness and the bad behaviour. She’s realised the full extent of her loss, she’s trying to accept it and in the process she is lashing out because she’s angry. It’s a natural stage of grief. I have experience of this and a few pages back the OP replied to one of my posts and asked me how long is long enough - which is when I replied based on my own experience and made her aware, if she wasn’t already, that her MIL could be struggling for this reason. This is a public forum, all anyone can do is comment based on their own experience. And if you have actually read my posts you don’t appear to have understood them, because you seem to think that I have been - in your words - ‘completely emotionally and socially reliant’ on my late husband, despite the fact that I have never said that. What I DID say was that after he died it took me six months to get back in the car and driving again. That was because I experienced agoraphobia as part of the grief process - again, something that was explained to me during later counselling as perfectly natural and occurring frequently. That doesn’t imply that I was reliant on my late husband either emotionally or socially, so what are you talking about ? I lost my husband of 40 years in the space of a few days after a shock diagnosis - do you really think that anyone, not just me although you seem to have the knives out for me - can get over that and breeze back into normal life in a few months ? And as for me being obsessed - well, that’s your opinion. My view isn’t the only one - of course not, but having experienced the loss of a life partner, the loss of a parent and the imminent loss of another from dementia, who has spent the last 3 years fading in front of me, I think my view is a valid one. And to suggest that I am trying to shame the OP into agreeing with me - I have no words.

This thread has degenerated into a slanging match and I’m stepping back from it now because it’s not helping anyone. OP - a last piece of advice. A couple of posters including myself have recommended a bereavement support site called WayUp. It’s not just for those who have lost partners, it’s for anyone who has experienced loss. Your MIL will benefit from it, so will your husband, and so will you because you are trying to support them both. Please can I suggest that you give it a go because there’s a wealth of experience on there from those who have had different losses and are at different stages of their grieving process. They can support your MIL and your husband much better than MN because it’s a site dedicated purely to supporting the bereaved. They can also support you in supporting your family and give you a much better understanding of the grieving process, so that you know what to expect. I do hope things improve for you all soon.

Sorry, I missed this. I am not implying that any form of grief is worse than any other, and I’m certainly not implying that the OP’s DH won’t experience the grief any less than his mum. What I said was that the impact on their lives will be different. And how am I judging ? I am commenting based on my personal experience, which is all anyone can do on a public forum. What you seem to be saying is that even though I’ve experienced both forms of loss, I don’t have a valid point of view.

OP, what you’ve described makes me wonder if your MIL is suffering from traumatic bereavement.

I experienced a family member suffering through this after the sudden death of her DH - it was a living nightmare for her. Her personality changed as she was so angry and completely consumed by his death and what she might have done differently.

I didn’t realise it was ‘a thing’ until I discovered she’d made active plans to end her own life and I started grabbing all the help and support I could possibly find.

It’s related to PTSD - the brain is sort of stuck at the point of the death and can’t process it, which prevents the more usual course of grief progressing.

If I remember correctly, if the person is still experiencing symptoms like flashbacks, obsessive preoccupation, inability to move forward in grief etc after 18 months then it can be classed as traumatic loss and be treated similarly to PTSD.

www.cruse.org.uk/understanding-grief/grief-experiences/traumatic-loss/

If your MIL doesn’t want to take medication or have counselling then it’s very tricky. As mentioned, my relative was rock-bottom with arrangements made for the rehoming of animals and her suicide all planned before I was able to access help for her and she was desperate enough to take the meds.

Your DH may have to do some serious tough love with his DM and seriously push her. Show her the info on the Cruse website link, ask her if she recognises any of the symptoms, does it describe how she feels? She needs to see what she’s experiencing isn’t normal and it won’t just go away or get better by itself.

Best of luck.

Most of us will experience loss. Only, when it happens do you truly understand how raw and painful it feels. It's utterly devistating.

Not much to add to comments except that I used to have a MIL like this and after many years of this behaviour we decided she was attention seeking. Nothing we ever did or said helped and she lost all her friends over her attitude. People would actually avoid her if they saw her out. In the end she only had contact with one of her four children who could stand her going on about her loss.

There is an amazing group she could try but maybe ask her to watch this first.. group is freedom thinking and literally changed my life 🙏 good luck

I feel for all of you🙏
it sounds like she got trapped in a pit of grief & self pity and just couldnt climb out or be helped out? Imo, ultimately you have to protect yourself, some people just cant be helped. I dont mean to excuse her but I think people can get very stuck in their ways, like grooves in a record and they dont know any other tunes except that one miserable dirge😕

What a difficult situation. Does DH know any of her friends. I wonder if he spoke to them they’d be supportive.
Train sounds very reasonable. A 6 hour drive isn’t. DH accompanying her for part way sounds sensible until she finds her feet. If not has she money for a taxi like an airport transfer service.
You can research and suggest all the groups and classes but if she won’t engage there’s little you can do.
I suspect what will happen is dh will pull back and limit seeing her for his own wellbeing. He’s grieving his father.
My mum was widowed suddenly at 59. She has made her own life and travels on train and buses. But she was independent before.
She had a neighbour who had never lived alone also bereaved and my mum acted as an unpaid companion to get her up and running - this lady had never shopped alone, paid a bill, got a train etc. A paid companion for mil would do that it’s not just care agencies provide but again she’d need to be agreeable.

It’s hard work trying to help someone in that position, but it sounds like she really needs you all. Is there something you can do to help her while she’s at home? Contact anyone around her who can visit or even local charities? Don’t stay away from her when she needs you most x

I'm so sorry. This is very difficult for you and your family. I'm not a great one for pandering to people though, so I would suggest laying some ground rules for her visits. Yes, she's depressed but she is also behaving in a very immature and spoiled manner (expecting to be picked up is a childlike level of dependence). The ground rules will have to be agreed with your DH and presented gently and kindly to her - in person, not in writing as that can be shocking. Does she have other children? If so can you agree something with them too? And I do also want to resolve you from any guilt you might feel at finding this difficult and anything in your own life making it worse for you. Even if you didn't have other issues, this is difficult. She is only middle aged too, not elderly. She could have a whole other life - education etc...

Sounds awful for everyone. Could you stay in an Air BnB or similar near her home? Then make the visit about helping in practical ways eg DIY, visiting the garden centre etc. And maybe help support enquiries to eg WI. Is your MiL on FB? Could she connect with other youngish widows that way? I have to say I sympathise with her re the trains, they are absolutely bloody awful atm and it can’t have been an easy journey for her. Not suggesting your DH provides a taxi service for 6 hours but at least by staying near her it will cut the driving by 50% and potentially ensure she’s in a better mood.

my step dad was like this when mum died. I finally had to tell him that I would support him however I could, and would always continue to, but that I could not support him by myself and he needed more people in his life to help him. Whether it be friends, professionals, etc. that was his choice, but it was also affecting me (I had to point out that I had also lost someone close to me, although obviously a different relationship than his) and I had to work out how to stay able to support him while also caring for myself. The kind of behaviour you describe is not normal after 18 months.

There's a lot of nonsense on here about the train.

Your MIL is not old at all, she is younger than me, and I would never expect to be picked up and taken home again. If it's a matter of heavy suitcases, I imagine you could arrange to provide a dressing gown/raincoat/toiletries so she doesn't have to lug everything around with her, or she could maybe keep some things at yours if convenient.

It could be that the train, for your MIL, represents not being cared for and that's the prism she's looking through. She needs help to get out of this state of mind, she can't spend the rest of her life (maybe 30 years?) doing this Queen Victoria deep in grief thing. Yes, she will always grieve the loss of her husband and at some point, we hope, the grief will be incorporated into her life and she can pick things up and carry on.

Indulging her in this state isn't helpful to her (not that I'm suggesting you are inclined to indulge her in it). I think the old days of set mourning periods were probably helpful, so a wife would officially be in mourning for her husband for one year (in the UK at least) then after that, everyone would expect a corner to have been turned. Just a corner, not 'got over it', not 'forgotten about him', but just feeling you can carry on.

Best of luck, OP.

Ah Op, I think you are getting a hard time here.

A close friend of mine was widowed very suddenly last year, only late 50s, no children to lean on. She is obviously devastated, but has never, as far as I know, taken her grief out on friends or family (brothers, nieces, nephews) who have rallied around to support her.

She has had some counselling and now going to a bereavement support group. She knows it is early days but at least is trying to help herself.

As for the travelling by train, my mum was widowed mid seventies and travelled by train (3 in total) at least one way when visiting us until her last 80s. She could drive but gave up the car after dad died and would never have driven outside her local area anyway.

I am almost 60, and can’t begin to understand how a fit and healthy 64yr old would not travel on trains! Especially if being picked up at the other end and help with tickets.