Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

@Janiie but is she not being selfish if her DS has to take leave to go and pick her up. Would it not be part of the healing process to accept that to help her DS in his grief to take the train. Might mean she could have more regular visits to them, which means she can have more company

I am sure I and other bereaved people are getting the message loud and clear. Grief is not welcome. Go and talk to a counsellor or anyone else about it. Don't bother us by trying to talk about the bereaved person, don't be sad, or anxious, or unconfident, or angry. Get back to normal and stfu

It's not that at all. Many of the posters here will have suffered their own bereavements, but realistically there really is only so much leeway one person can be granted either emotionally or practically.

FWIW it sounds as if you've been kind and supportive so far, and rightly so as you'd hope that's what any family would do, but there comes a time to start stepping back a little so the sadly bereaved can begin to develop their own "new life"

For me her utter refusal to do this is a red flag, suggesting that she could easily come to expect more and more as she gets older - and that could create a very difficult situation for everyone, especially once the illnesses (real or imagined) start

Basically she's making choices which she's fully entitled to do, but not at an increasing cost to your own family life, so before this gets worse I'd start practising a few "oh dear" phrases while still recommending the sort of outside help you already have

This. @Identifyingasadolphin , sorry you had the sudden loss too. It’s shit.

Please get her to engage with Way Up, she can chat online and in time might feel like going to meet ups. Other widows, and widowers, will understand why she needs to go over her DH last days, could she have done different ( it’s effing torture I can tell you) She’s still processing her husband’s death.

This is her son who sees his mother once every few months. Is that really a lot to ask? Obviously.

My DM was widowed completely suddenly and unexpectedly in her forties, she had two children to care for and had to take on care for the remaining grandparents including ILs she didn’t really get on with, who had no one else as they succumbed to dementia over the next two years. She also had her own health issues.

None of them tried to punish other people with their loss.

I don't agree that she is actively trying to "punish other people" with her loss. She is reacting a certain way because of her grief and a byproduct of that is that people are getting hurt and then frustrated.

There's no right or wrong here really. OP is right to feel a bit frustrated with some of her actions. Some of MILs actions are completely normal and a part of her grieving process. Time will hopefully help heal both.

She's anxious catching the train, why would anyone increase the anxiety of someone who has lost their dh at a relatively young age.

Compassion, understanding and patience. It isn't too much to ask.

We've had no examples of the rudeness barring her being quiet. I could cope with that.

Grief doesn't come with a rulebook

I think some people aren't reading the OP's posts. The MIL is not talking about the FIL in a normal way at all, she is turning interactions about other things eg a nice picture from the grandchildren into being about the fact that her husband isn't there to see it instead of congratulating the grandchild and privately wishing he was there or even saying "DFIL would have been so proud of you". She is confusing and possibly scaring her grandchildren. The OP and her DH want to help and support her, but her rude behaviour is too much. By the sounds of things one factor could be that she feels guilty about how he died if she keeps wanting to go over it and see if anything could have saved him so it really might help her to talk to someone about that. I agree that 18 months isn't long and people's absence can get bigger the longer they are gone so I do feel every sympathy for her but for you and your DH too.

I'm not sure why some posters think that those who don't think grief gives you carte blanche to behave like a dick have never lost anyone themselves

Maybe it's easier to tell themselves that?
I too have lost close family, which is partly why I recognised all that OP/DH have already done; however there's a future to think about and not just that of MIL, which is why it can be wise to get approaches in place before the situation deteriorates any further

'realistically there really is only so much leeway one person can be granted either emotionally or practically.'

Yeah catch the train and stop watching telly anxious, grief-stricken mil! And fgs go to counselling so everyone can get on with their important lives.

What's so hard about getting a train? A simple journey, not navigating the underground. It seems a huge mental block for so many older people

I have suffered several and one especially devastating bereavement that will leave me forever bereft and fundamentally heartbroken, I don’t expect anyone to take their grief somewhere else or get over it. No one should.

I still felt that from what little we can tell from the OPs post her MIL could and should try to find a better way to relate to others going forward. Sulks etc about the train aren’t going to help. I haven’t read the full thread but please don’t read hostility into every message that questions MILs behaviour.

I think the best way forward is for DH to do lots of short visits and get a feel for how she is doing in daily life, and give her more regular support.

no-one is saying don’t talk about the deceased person but it sounds like MIL is turning even the slightest attempts at conversation (which have no relevance at all) about her husband. Someone else’s cancer, a kid’s picture, sounds like they literally can’t talk about anything? That’s unbearable and not normal after 18 months.

@turquoisepenguin

I think the issue with the train is not the journey itself. Obvs as a fit 64 y/o, she's perfectly capable of a train journey. It's that that FiL drove them everywhere so being on the train is a '2 hr each way' reminder in and of itself. Every moment she's on that train she's being reminded that he is no longer there. I''m not saying she's justified, but she may feel as if DH is 'subjecting' her to feel her sorrow by 'forcing' her to take the train. Grief simply isn't logical, her feelings can't be reasoned away.

As far as sitting in front of the TV for 6 hours, honestly, so what? If she's watching TV then she is quietly 'entertained' as you get on with your day. Is it that she was 'hogging' the TV and your family couldn't watch their 'shows'? Watching TV may have been part of your iLs routine before he died, so it's a comfort to continue that 'ritual'. I think lots of retired people watch what others would consider 'too much' TV (looks guiltily at self and DH).

Even if you could, 'forcing' her to seek support wouldn't work. Just as you can't 'cure' an addict by forcing them into treatment, you wouldn't be able to 'cure' her grief by forcing her to groups, online chats, etc. She has to want to 'feel better' and for whatever reason, she just doesn't. Could she feel it would be disloyal to FiL to 'get over him'?

As far as what the answer is, who knows? Time and patience, I expect. And gentle communications by DH about specific issues without referring to her grief. Rudeness and sulking can be addressed on their own, the need for the train journey vis a vis DH's having to take too much time off can be addressed, again, gently. It probably won't do much good, but I'd still address them as it 'plants the seed'.

Some widow/ers never get over their grief, others carve out new lives whilst still grieving their loss in quiet moments. My mum was one of the latter, thank God. She grieved for Dad for close to 20 years, until dementia took over, but she made a new life for herself with friends, church, and US.

If we could 'bottle' why some do and some don't eventually step out of their grief we'd be rich as Croesus.

I agree with posters suggesting that your DH goes to stay with her in March. My Dad is currently grieving the loss of my lovely step-Mum ( my Mum died decades ago) and I’ve been visiting him alone as he just can’t cope with our entire family. We’ll gradually re-introduce family visits, but he’s not ready for that yet.

I also think that when they’re alone together, your DH needs to talk to his Mum about practical things she can do to improver her situation. It’ll be hard, she’ll probably get upset, but it has to be done. Far better for your DH to do it when he’s visiting and no one else is involved. It sounds as if she does need support of some description- her GP could refer her to the local MH team who’ll visit her, for example. My Dad has needed anti-depressants and additional support since my SM died- and it really does help.

It’s a difficult time, but your DH can take charge of the situation and perhaps also reach out to other family members (whom your MIL doesn’t speak to) and explain that if they could find the heart to give her a call perhaps, he’d be grateful. I’ve rallied extended family to support my Dad ( who can be awkward too) and they’ve been lovely.

I do think tolerance of her sadness and lack of confidence should increase though.

I totally agree with you OP. I'm a similar age to your MiL and have lots of friends of this age and much older and they don't struggle to manage a two hour train journey. It's ridiculous. I know people in their 70s that are travelling to Brazil and Peru respectively on their own (with organised tours but still). It wouldn't even cross my mind to get my adult children to do such a trip to pick me up. In fact as neither of them drive, we do the opposite sometimes if the train isn't viable because of strikes etc and I go and pick them up. I don't know why MN considers anyone 60+ as helpless and incapable. It's a bit insulting and bonkers.

I also know people who have experienced loss, including loss of a child and I don't think it should give them licence to be rude and unkind. Sad is one thing, I can completely empathise with the tears and even the watching TV is manageable. But the insisting being picked up, the sulking and passive aggression is not acceptable.

Also you don't sound like you're trying to stop her grieving, just not taking out her grief on everyone else, which is perfectly reasonable. She sounds like a very angry person OP.

And if you do handle it by being selfish, demanding and punishing then you shouldn't be surprised when, after sticking in there for 18 months, people begin to pull back. They are entitled to protect themselves and their lives.

In grieving, 18 months may be nothing and it can be a long time. Some people have met someone else and even married within 18 months. For others they're still lost in the foothills of grief. It's asking a lot to expect your family and friends to put up with poor behaviour for years.

Much of the way people deal with grief depends on personality but I think just as important is whether they have their own independent life and sense of self before the bereavement. In my years as a volunteer bereavement counsellor it was the insular people, those who relied on a spouse or a sibling or parent for everything, who were those who found it hardest to integrate their grief in their life. Those with an established support circle and interests and jobs seemed to fare better. It's common sense, really. If you have no independent life to incorporate your grief into you, it can be easy to be overwhelmed.

Anxiety causes many 'simple journeys' to be problematic, add in someone who has lost their spouse and csn you, like the op, really not see it may be very difficult? Just Google anxiety, mental health and grief for a teeny bit of awareness.

There is an enormous difference losing family where you still have a husband and a future you can see. The MIL will feel like she has no future. The only person she has is a son she sees every few months and his wife who do not want to see her. It is not comparable.
Bereavements are different. Losing someone very suddenly and unexpectedly is different to an older person with a long drawn out illness where everyone knows what is coming. You do a lot of pre grieving in that situation.

@roarfeckingroarr Would your 12 year old be anxious about a simple train journey that they could physically do?

@Inyournewdress I take your point. But there have been some really nasty comments on this thread.

You don't know she has anxiety @Janiie

She could just not like travelling by train after a life spent being ferried about.