To think ex should be guiding ASD daughter with better social decisions

[Kayos10]

My 6yr old ASD DD is very very quirky. She speaks in a very strong American accent, has no boundaries and is over familiar with everybody and anybody. She talks in a lot of sayings that she picks up from TV and so she doesn't always make sense and come across a little strange. She's also albino and so sticks out a bit with her personality and looks. The majority of school friends seem to have accepted her being that they've been in the same class for a few years but I still see that she can be annoying to them and will notice the odd looks she gets when she's being overbearing as she can be.

Obviously I worry that she'll get bullied at school, she's different and kids can be cruel and so I try to guide her with her behaviours as best as I can.

To the point now.. this weekend she was with her dad and had a birthday party to go to which he got her ready for. It was a double party for 2 girls so 2 whole classes in a hall with DJ etc. Dd has recently become obsessed with Wednesday Adams (she hasn't watched it, just seen the dance on tik tok and now obsessed). Ex got her the Wednesday fancy dress costume and then because she asked, let her wear it to the party.

I was online and came across pictures of the party. Lots of fashionable 6 yr olds in their denim shorts, sparkly tops and party clothes. Then my little Wednesday sitting on her own. I have text him that he shouldn't have let her go in that outfit. He called me and said why not she looked great and she really wanted to wear it. I agreed she looked amazing but as a parent it was his job to explain time and place etc and that she will end up getting bullied if we don't guide her properly.

I got told to f off and hung up on. We continued to argue it out on text but he feels I'm accusing him of being a bad parent.

So yabu? We should fully support our crazy and slightly weird dd to be herself and dress how she wants or ..

Yanbu we Should be guiding her her to make better social choices

@zurala ok boss 🤣

Shes six years old. If she wore fancy dress to a kids party whether its fancy dress or not, noone will give a shit. It might matter in her teens, but at 6,most kids are not that hot on social norms and are relatively accepting. Let her enjoy her childhood without being constantly self conscious.
She will have plenty of time later to hate herself

Ah OP, sorry to hear your worries about your lovely-sounding quirky little DD.
Should she wear and do what she likes…or be encouraged to fit in more. It’s a minefield.

It doesn’t sound like she was being bullied at the party…just not actively being included. Which may have happened regardless of what she wore, and may even be her own choice. But I get your worries.

Would a good approach be to make sure she is aware in any situation of what the norms are…and then once you are sure she knows, let her choose. Informed consent and all that.

You're giving her the message that she shouldn't be herself. She IS different, there's nothing you or she can do about that and you should be helping her to learn about that. Her neurodiversity makes her who she is, and it comes with gifts as well as challenges. If her classmates are calling her weird, could you ask the teacher to have an age-appropriate class talk about neurodiversity?

@Kinde she wanted to wear a style and she wore it, it would be masking to dress in the fashionable stuff because everyone else is. I'm sorry you struggle so much with that concept, wearing something to fit in and being taught that from young is damaging especially to girls who have ASD who fake it every day.

I agree with you OP. I dont think a 6 year olds birthday party was the best place for a Wednesday Adams fancy dress whilst no one else was in fancy dress. I'd also be willing to take a guess on a lot of these people replying against you, that they also wouldn't take a 6 year old to a party in fancy dress when no one else was. But that's MN for you I guess.

But many “odd” people do want to fit in more - they just don’t know how. They need the rules explained.
They don’t have to obey every rule if they don’t want to of course. But many would appreciate being guided as to what the rules are, not just breezily being told to do whatever they like. Then they can make an informed choice.

Yes, how wonderful that he told OP to fuck off.
WHAT an unhelpful and nasty comment

She will be the odd one out you say she already speaks with an American accent etc, more so as she gets older. However, if she's herself then her classmates will know this and she will be happier in her own skin. Fair enough to say the other girls will probably be wearing x , do you want to too or do you still want to wear y? I don't think your ex was in the wrong about the party

@PumpkinDart my 14 year old daughter often reminds me about the time I let her go to a christening in a football kit at the age of 6. I was against it at the time and felt ashamed taking her when everyone else was dressed up lovely. But she was so set on wearing it that I let her. She often mentions it and says "I can't believe you let me do that you should have put your foot down".

So where is the line on which is most damaging? There's no harm in teaching someone what is more appropriate for each individual scenario, surely?

From your description of your daughter, she is always going to be obviously different however she behaves. So as she gets older the likely scenario is that she learns to "style it out" - to own her differences, be herself, and hopefully have friends that recognise and appreciate that. Don't worry too much about the quirky stuff, do worry about supporting her to become a genuinely kind person, help her to understand how others might feel, help her to predict things she can do that others would appreciate.

I was bullied a lot when young too. We have an awkward surname (my maiden name also, and as for double barrelling don't even go there!) and I think my husband thought I was worrying too much when choosing names that didn't have the potential to make bullying worse. My earliest memory of not-fitting-in goes right back to preschool, asking if I could join a group at a craft table and being told "no". I repeatedly got the message that nothing I could do was going to make me fit in, so went my own way and indeed ended up with a general dislike of most things that get labelled "popular culture". I suspect your daughter would also find that nothing she can do will make her "fit in", so do everything you can to help her become someone people know is different but like anyway.

My own daughter hasn't had as smooth a run growing up as I would have hoped, but to quote a comment I had more than once from school when she'd done or said something inappropriate, "everyone knows that's just X, and everyone likes X" - if something could be interpreted as rude etc they did know she didn't mean it to be. She's at uni now and I hope finding her tribe there!

Op as the parent of an autistic child I want to say please ignore thise being hideously judgemental of you here. I would step away from this thread. Unless people walk a mile in your shoes they will not understand.

Personally I dont think there is a right or wrong answer its bloody exhausting parenting a child who is quirky and worrying abiut them all the time

Inwould Try to find a network of families who understand autism so you can discuss these issues in a sympathetic space

I completely understand your fears about bullying, as it happened to me throughout school. However, I was and still am Wednesday! I tried to conform and wear the same as my peers, but it made no difference. As a teenager, I started being Wednesday again. I still am, aged 53!

Wednesday is her armour, her help for coping with social situations. Let her go with it so her confidence grows with her knowing that you and her dad understand her and have her back. Give her dad a call back and apologise, explaining your fears and that you realise he'd done the right thing. That'll go a long way in co parenting with him over the years. Your daughter sounds wonderful.

YANBU

My DD has ASD and I work in an SEND.

There is a balance that you need to find and one of the most difficult parts of my job is having to mould my students into something that society deems acceptable - which sounds horrible but these kids will never be able to live independently or get a job or not get beaten up in the street etc if they are not taught how to act.

All kids need teaching on how to behave ‘appropriately’ whether they are SEND or not.
That is part of being a good parent.

I have a student who wants to wear a massive princess dress everyday - she can’t do this.
So there is a balance.
In school she must wear her school uniform and then at home one day a week she can wear her dress.

Many of my students have animal alter egos and I have to tell them that it’s not appropriate to be howling like a wolf or roaring like a dinosaur at the top of their lungs when we are out in public.

I also have students who are obsessed with weapons and death - again it’s not something that they need to be talking about to the little old lady in the shop, especially as one is year 11 and could easily be arrested soon over things like this.

Unless you have a child with ASD or work with them then posters will not understand what you mean.

I would think going to a child’s party in fancy dress was inappropriate and so I would let her choose something else and let her wear the Wednesday outfit at home.

As she has 2 parents then it’s going to have to be a discussion and hopefully a compromise.

I agree with this. MN and their judgemental views is not the place to get support, they can be savage!

I'd also be willing to take a guess on a lot of these people replying against you, that they also wouldn't take a 6 year old to a party in fancy dress when no one else was. But that's MN for you I guess.

I can just imagine if a MNer’s child had a birthday party and one of their friends came dressed in fancy dress - there would definitely be a thread about how inappropriate it was!

I was bullied too OP. My mothers advice at the time was to try and fit in with the others. I don’t blame her for that. She meant well but I wasn’t into the things that the others were and my mam wished I was a bit more outgoing. My teenage years were hell.

It’s only now that I’m about to be 30 that I’m comfortable in who I am in my own skin. That I dress how I want and hold myself with confidence but it took years to reach that level.

Your little girl sounds wonderful. She is her own individual. She doesn’t follow crowds and I think that’s wonderful. Instead of wanting her to conform to the others I would be teaching her resilience. How to be proud of who she is. Her dad is right and you are wrong on this account.

Your attitude to it is potentially more harmful in the long run because it’s sending the message subconsciously that who she is just isn’t good enough. When really who she is should be something to celebrate.

Probably the best protection for her is to feel comfortable in herself and find the friends who love her quirkiness.

There will be kids who call her "weird". She doesn't need to seek their approval.

Agree with this. I understand where you’re coming from OP. I was a socially awkward child, and looking back, I can see that some guidance on social skills and fitting in would have smoother things along.

My daughter is also a little quirky (I have concerns about possible ND) and she would be the girl in dark top and joggers at a party when all the other girls are in party dresses. I know exactly how you feel when you see your daughter on her own when the other girls playing together.

My DD does have one very good friend which makes social situations easier, but it is still a concern to find that balance between being yourself and fitting in.

BTW, if she loves Wednesday, she could watch the cartoon Addams Family film that came out a few years ago - it’s more suitable for a 6 year old than the 1990s films.

Your DD sounds fabulous, as does your ex. Sorry OP, you are the wrong un here! Xxx

Oh sorry - I just realised it was another kid's birthday party, of course you would be at her party yourself! But it's fine for her to wear what she likes to a kids' party unless it's something really inappropriate (sexualised or with a rude slogan) and at 6 I wouldn't expect it to be an issue.

Forcing people to fit into “societal norms” rarely helps anyone. We spend far too much time focusing of making ourselves and our children fit into boxes just to fit in. but why? Why do we suppress ourselves and our children simply to fit into a preconceived idea of “normal”?

yes things like manners and kindness are vital and should be taught but surely part of that is also teaching to accept others, and ourselves, for who we are?

At the end of the day OP would you have had any idea what all the other kids were going to wear before she went? Or is it only because you saw the video after that you saw she was different? Would you really have persuaded her to dress in denim shorts and a sparkly top???

I have one with ASD so I know what it's like walking that fine tightrope of letting them be themselves and enabling them to fit in with others. I think what you need to do is think about what she wants most - is she desperate to fit in and make friends but doesn't know how? Or is she perfectly happy doing her own thing? If she's perfectly happy sat at the side observing, enjoying her own company, dressing differently, being there but not being part of the crowd - if she's happy with that then it's important to allow her to be that - OMG this is a lesson I had to learn with DS, it took some time as it's so counterintuitive because you assume they must want to be popular and have loads of friends!

If she is desperate to make friends though then it's trickier. At 6 though they still tend to be fairly accepting, I'd watch out for anyone who appreciates her quirkiness or may be struggling a bit themselves and organise play dates one on one with them - one on one is often much easier than groups. I'd also organise a party for her every year as parties are a great way to make you instantly popular in the play ground! (Assuming it's something she wants and will enjoy).

You are scared of her being bullied the way you were - but better than teaching her to change herself, teach her how to handle it. What to do if someone says something mean, why do people say mean things sometimes - is it really about her or about they themselves? What do the people who love her think about her? Who can she talk to about this if it's an issue?

As they get older it can get even harder in some ways OP and easier in others. If she can be happy being herself, understanding herself, finding safe spaces for herself (DS has the library at secondary school which is his sanctuary), find a friend who appreciates her quirks, find things she loves and excels at, she can get through the trauma of Secondary school pretty unscathed as DS has.

It's just about walking that tightrope and working out what's important to her - rather than what society says should be important. She may have no interest in being popular, or trends or what others are doing just like DS - and let me tell you if that's the case it's a blessing when you don't have to worry about peer pressure, drinking, smoking, sex etc.

I'd be cutting down massively on screen time I'd she's speaking with an American accent. I've met kids who do this and it's because they are glued to their iPads. Should a6 year old even have access to Tik Tock?

None of those examples are the same as a five year old wearing a dress to a party.

Being slightly extra in your party attire (and she’s FIVE) is nothing like being obsessed with weapons as a 16 year old or howling like a wolf.