Biggest dilemma of my whole life - Please help

[Purplecastle]

Please help me with my biggest dilemma of my life.

We live in the UK the last 12 years but we are not from the UK. Both myself and my husband come from an Eastern European country and are both well educated and gain very good salaries, together we hit above 6 digit salary. We have British passports and 2 DCs, 3 and 1 years old.

Our parents live back in our home country and we have no other siblings.

We like our lives here, we are well established, we bought our house, we have our car, we are balanced. We live in a nice area and our kids will go to good schools.

Our parents are between 60-75 years old (all 4 of them).

We are at a stage that we have to decide whether to return back for them or not. They are not willing to come and live in the UK and I don't blame them as they are in retirement and have their friends and life back in our home country.

If we stay here we will be financially better and our kids will have a better education.
If we go back we will just about make it financially as a good school there in only a private school.
If we go back would be to be close to our parents at their final years and our kids to grow with their grandparents.
If we stay here our parents will either end up in an elderly house with noone close to them and if they accept to come and live in the UK we won't be able to afford a good elderly care and support for them as it's so expensive.
If we go back our kids will be more citizens of our home country (which is where we feel we belong - at home we speak our home country language) and if we stay here we will raise up British people, which is absolutely fine, but it's not us in a way.

What would you do? Please help as my mind is split between parents and kids and I am totally exhausted....

YABU - Stay in the UK
YANBU - Go back to your home country

Prioritise your children and their future.

Depends where ‘home’ is: if it’s Poland and you have daughters, no, I wouldn’t, for example.
(abortion is illegal in Poland, they are staunch catholics).

Schooling system in the UK is different from Eastern Europe, both have major faults, but I wouldn’t say one is better than the other. You yourself know, educated in EE, move to the UK, hard work get you a good job etc. So you won’t deprive your children of much.

Childcare, back home you probably have 2 years maternity leave, grandparents to look after the kids when you go back to work. Here you earn more, but nursery full time per child is £1900.

I have been in the UK for 30 years now. I’m a foreigner, both here and ‘back home’. I have a grown up DD who doesn’t speak my language. I’ve got transferable skills, and properties in both countries and we spend most of our free time on continental Europe. So me moving back home would be a doodle. As I’m growing older, I’m more and more tempted. I keep thinking it’s the good old sunken fallacy at play, but I’ve built a life here in spite of all etc etc etc, to give it all up….but also, there is a reason why I left in the first place….

I genuinely don’t know what the answer is, I don’t have a good relationship with my parents, so I suppose that makes it easier for me. But if you do, I would go home.

First of all 60-75 is young, you can hold off the decision for at least 5 years.

If it’s a country bordering the Ukraine eg Poland I wouldn’t go back right now.

What is your gut feeling? Where do you feel is home? What kind of lifestyle do you want your children to have? Similar to your own or different? Your children are young and you don’t need to rush. But as they get older they will become settled with friendships etc. I don’t live near to family as they all moved with retirement. I think they would like us to follow but I won’t do that. As where we live has more career opportunities etc.

OP you’ve said that your parents are not willing to come and live in UK. Buy is it possible legally? I’ve heard that you can’t bring parents in UK from another country unless you can prove that you have sufficient funds to support them, they need care and care in UK is cheaper then care in their country, something like this, I haven’t investigated it myself, just heard from friends so not sure if it’s 100% true.

It is a tough decision but I would always make it by looking at what you are offeirng the next generation, not the previous one. What is the best choice for your children?

Maybe tioo, ask what is the best for yourselves? Do you want to grow old and die in UK or back in your home country?

Remember nothing is set in stone. You can go over for several holidays so your children get to know their family and counrty of origin really well. You could move back once your children are at uni and your parents are more elderly. At 60/70 they still have a good decade or more left if their health is good.

Go and visit them soon. That might ease your anxiety. Take DC. Chat with everyone about what they most want and look at all the compromises and accommodations that can get you close to the best of both worlds. If it were my decision, ultimately DC's future would be the priority here.

This IS the problem when people move away, even to another part of the UK 100s and 100s of miles away, and it's even worse when they move to another country. Whilst it's OK for a few years and everything seems good; when elderly/infirm parents need help and support, they don't have it, if their adult children have moved out of the country/100s and 100s of miles away.

There is another side to this too; I know a few people whose parents (aged 50-55 or so,) moved to another country, and these people I know now have no parental support with their children. I know people think they're doing the best thing, moving for 'better opportunities' or 'sunnier weather,' but you really are leaving your family and loved ones behind. In many cases, you are leaving the relationship behind, because you cannot have a proper relationship when you are in different countries. Not in the majority of cases anyway.

Personally, I would move back to be with them, but I can tell you don't want to. A tricky situation. I don't envy you. I really have no suggestions. This is an almost impossible situation.

@Mirabai

First of all 60-75 is young.

It's really not. 60 is not 'young!' And 75 most definitely isn't! Why do people say this kind of thing on here?

If only life was so simple! The op
is lucky in that she and her dh share the same nationality. Many expat couples come from different countries and have to choose between them which means one half usually ends up slightly less happy than the other. In that situation, “doing what is best for the dc” makes a lot of sense.

When faced with this sort of dilemma op, I would always put my child’s education and future opportunities at the very centre of my decision. I know it’s a long way ahead but consider university education too as that is very important.

Much as I love the UK, I would want my child to have an EU passport nowadays as I think the UK has very sadly shot itself in the foot by voting for Brexit and the negative effects of Brexit will become increasingly apparent over the next five to ten years.

Btw does Poland allow you to hold both British and Polish passports as that could be useful for your dc if so?

We made the decision to move and stay in the EU from the UK but we like the country we have ended up in, our dc have access to a great (free) education and health care and now their high quality university education is free too. But we like the vibe of the place and don’t ever feel the need to return to the uk, whereas from your post, it sounds like you “feel” more Polish than English.

Also language learning is very important (something the posters quoted above are not taking in to account.) The opportunity to become bi- or tri- lingual should not be dismissed lightly and the earlier you start the better. Being multi-lingual as a child helps the brain synapses to develop which boosts strategic thinking. And as a university student and working age adult, it gives you much more freedom about where you can study, live and work. So wherever you stay op, make sure you keep up both languages!

YANBU op, I think in your shoes I would go back to Poland (with the caveat that I would be watching the situation in the Ukraine and what could potentially happen should Putin lose control of Russia and who or what regime might replace him ie will there be a lot of instability?)

Wishing you the very best of luck whichever you decide! Maybe it will help to remember that when it comes to a decision like this, there are pros and cons that come with both options.

And that it takes a few years to settle in to being back home again. The UK is great from the pov of housing, good shopping, good community spirit, good sense of fairness and good sense of humour. In other countries, good education, health care and public transport might be better for example.

@Sportswomansrest72
Why are you talking about Poland? The OP has only said Eastern Europe.

Is higher education free or highly subsidised in the home country? That would be a big draw for the education system there.

Well most 60-70 year olds aren’t totally incapacitated by old age. All the ones I know are still working. I think that’s what people mean.

My own father was still living like he alway did when he was 80.

If my grandmother was still alive, she would be 105 now, but photos of her in her mid 50s, she was already an “old lady” in a housecoat with a blue rinse perm. Things have changed these days.

My MIL is 69 and still goes to Glastonbury and V every year.

A friend of mine is originally Polish but has British Citizenship. He visited Poland over Christmas and said he was shocked how the cost of living crisis has hit the country particularly where his family live outside a main city. Bars and restaurants have closed because they just can’t afford to keep running and people are struggling to find work. He said it was so sad after seeing how everywhere had boomed and prospered in previous years.
People are saying money isn’t everything but it’s bloody important. If you can give your children prospects here can you consider staying here and thinking about supporting parents from here by paying for private care when needed ie someone visiting parents and shopping, cleaning etc and as pp have said making more frequent visits when needed?
I’d visit your parents and do some really strong research how things would look over there and what would benefit you and your children long term. Good luck x

It reads like you’re torn between your heart (home country) and your head (Britain).

I find my gut is more reliable than either, what is that saying?

I think 60 is still relatively young for many people but 75 isn't. And as you get older, the difference in years counts for more. I know some 80 year olds who are hale and hearty, and some people in their late 70s who are totally dependent on others to care for them so it's just too much of a blanket statement to say that age range is relatively young.

And IME, it's much better to make decisions whilst you feel like time is on your side. Because five years can actually go quite quickly and then moving etc. can easily take a year to organise. My own parents deteriorated very rapidly after 75, much more so than they did between 70 and 75 so I would not be complacent about the ageing process.

If you have gained British citizenships, be aware bringing your parents over may not be an option anymore, if you consider this, you may want to speak to an immigration expert.

60-75 is not that old unless there are current severe health issues.

“It reads like you’re torn between your heart (home country) and your head (Britain).

I find my gut is more reliable than either, what is that saying?”

Completely agree with this. The dilemma is that there is no single right answer to this. Each course of action has advantages and disadvantages and is valid in its own way so no-one can sensibly say that one course of action is reasonable and the other is unreasonable.

Being bilingual is an advantage to your children whether you stay here or return to your home country; being able to work in a foreign language can significantly improve their employment prospects. And if your mother tongue is a Slavonic language then that also opens up other Slavonic languages to them (at least in terms of comprehension if not speaking). So that knowledge won’t be wasted if you stay in the UK.

As PP have said, the current war in Ukraine and its effects in neighbouring countries may also be a factor to consider plus the anti-abortion legislation in Poland if your DCs are girls (though perhaps that will have changed by the time they are of an age for it to be relevant). That said, if the war in Ukraine becomes a pan-European war, here will not necessarily be much safer.

Good luck making your decision, OP.

Speak for yourself! Sorry but I think this is a very narrow viewpoint.

I live abroad and have four siblings and manage to maintain a good relationship with all of them thank you very much! We are a very close family so please don’t be too sure about your assumptions!

Communication is much easier now with new technologies.

It admittedly was difficult during the pandemic but it was for everyone, and I usually visit my uk siblings minimum four times a year and they come over to me during the summer and usually on another occasion during the year. And I visit London and see two of them on other occasions fairly regularly. In fact, given that I have one sibling who lives in the Home Counties and one north of Manchester, I see them more than they see one another and they live in the same country!

My parents were too elderly to help with childcare anyway.

I meant young for people in third age.

I say this as I spend a lot of time with elderly people and I have much more realistic idea of their health and competence level than many on here who simply think everyone over 60 is past it.

This is such a shitty comment and completely untrue of everyone I know.

Yes all of this discussion is immaterial really if op and her dh cannot earn enough to support their family. Most couples cannot ignore the economic realities of their potential earning power in different countries.

It depends really on the type of jobs you are doing. If you are a doctor for example you can probably live reasonably well anywhere.

Sorry op! I saw a previous post mentioning Poland and assumed that is your country of origin. Many apologies if I have got this wrong!

We did this in reverse and moved back to the UK from Western Europe. God how I regret that!

It is difficult to advise because Eastern European countries are not all the same, as I am sure you know!

I say this as I spend a lot of time with elderly people and I have much more realistic idea of their health and competence level than many on here who simply think everyone over 60 is past it.

I haven't seen any evidence on here of people saying if you're over 60 you're past it, particularly since many of us aren't far from that age anyway. But many of my friends are in that age bracket and I have noticed how quickly things can change so that they are having to manage chronic health conditions. And I do think it's much better to make plans whilst people are still relatively healthy than to leave it until they do need much more care, because care can take quite a while to put in place.

I am picking up on where you say that you and your DH still feel as if you belong in your home country.

Are you saying that even though you have a good life 'on paper' in the UK - ie good jobs, nice house, that you feel that you don't really belong here ?

Originally I was on the side of remaining here as it should be quite easy and inexpensive to get back to your home country for visits (assuming we never experience those lock down conditions again) . But to me, it sounds as if deep down you would prefer to go back .

And I do understand that it's a decision you need to make within the next year or so before your children get settled in school and with local friends .