To expect DH to put on a 'brave face'

[PabloPablo]

DH has anxiety. He refuses to seek help for it. Or rather he says 'yes yes, i'll book the GP/research therapists' etc and then nothing ever happens.

He recently booked a boys trip to Barcelona. He hasn't been away for 5 years. And all he can talk about is the plane crashing and "the kids growing up without a dad".This will sound harsh but I do think he exaggerates this a bit for some reason.

We have never taken the DC on holiday (2 and 3). We are planning a trip. He already said he didn't want to fly with them - so we are going by ferry and driving. But already this is now up for debate.

DC (3) is an anxious little boy. Nursery have referred him for poss ASD. As an example, he went to a 4th birthday party at the weekend and he spent a lot of it on my lap with his hood up. But he did eventually join in. He talks about 'so scary mummy' a lot. But he does get into stuff. And he has no fears physically.

Anyway - the question is - I have said to DH that if we are going on holiday i need him to not talk about being scared. Not chat about car crashes. Or plane etc. DS (3) isn't very verbal so I think DH forgets he understands everything.

I think DH thinks I am being very unsympathetic to his anxiety by being a bit harsh with him. But I feel it is our role to make DS feel safe and secure.

Is it fair enough to ask him to pretend to not feel anxious?

How did you just stop being anxious?

If that is your advice for OPs DH, to just stop beig anxious -- tell her how you did it and she can pass those ideas along.

That is great that you were able to just stop being anxious on your own.

I couldn’t live like this, OP. A refusal to seek help and break the cycle would be an absolute dealbreaker for me.

Where does it say that I stopped suffering with anxiety?

I still suffer with it but I know after a lot of soul searching why I feel the way I do and why I react about things the way I do.

My point was, in MY opinion people aren't born with anxiety (Like OPs DC) that experiences along the way cause it. Such as, living with a very anxious parent.

I’m petrified of flying but never ever let my children know how scared I was. It’s very wrong to instill any of those fears in to children.

Long term, therapy is helpful for learning to manage anxiety. Therapy can be very difficult to access. Medication should not be discounted and getting access to medication can be as simple as a single visit to a GP. I felt dramatically better within a couple of days of starting a low dose of sertraline. Medication has also been shown to make therapy more effective. A GP appointment is very easy and it might turn out to be enough

there are also plenty of suggestions for coping techniques online. Basic cbt exercises. Tapping is trendy but it is basically another mindfulness exercise that helps a person disrupt the anxiety spiral.

Your husband is being a prick. It's one thing to have anxieties, it's another to refuse to do anything about them and to be so dramatic that your little boy is now learning to be terrified of the world. That is abusive in my eyes. Particularly since your husband is overcoming these anxieities that mean his family can't go on holiday but he can go on a break with his mates!!!

Totally selfish! If this were me I would forget about my husband and concentrate on making the world fun and exciting for my children, and if my husband continues to make it a terrifying place for them, I'd have to remove them from that unhealthy environment permanently.

In the short term I'd book the holiday for you and your children and he can sit at home and worry about the roof falling in or going to sleep and the house burning down around him. Longer term you have to lay it out - do something about this, or it's over. And follow up when he continues to do nothing.

It would be completely wrong to allow this to continue and for your children's lives to be affected negatively because of it.

I agree with other posters
It would be unreasonable to expect him to just "stop" being anxious (which I understand you're not doing)
It's completely reasonable for you to expect him to get some help and to take proportionate steps to not pass down his anxiety to your child

As a pp said, I bet every time he chats to his mates about the Barcelona trip he's not saying "the plane will probably crash" etc to them. Because he knows they will mock him or tell him to pipe down. So he's able to control how he expresses his anxiety even if he can't control whether he feels it. So I'd ask why he can't expand the same courtesy to you. Talking about his anxiety to you (and even more so in front of his kids) doesn't seem to be helping him reduce or manage it, and wont reduce the (irrational) "risk" thats causing the anxiety so why is he doing it? Does he want you to agree and cancel the holiday? The only thing that's happening is that he is making you and your kids unhappy too which if he loves you there's no reason for.

If he thinks talking about things helps him (although it doesn't seem to be the case) then that's exactly why he needs to talk to a professional!

He's also not necessarily right about being on a waiting list for months. I had anxiety and between referral to first session with mind was less than a month and this was during covid when there was huge demand for their services. I also could have got a referral even faster if I'd gone via my employers occ health scheme, and random other things like union membership, home insurance etc sometimes also have offers for private referrals too.

He's entitled to his anxiety but are yo u saying he's actually talking about plane crashes and dying and growing up without a Dad IN FRONT of the children?

@MyPurpleHeart I agree people aren't born anxious - but do you think ND kids are more likely to be anxious? My DS has struggled with social communication forever and becomes very anxious/angry over tiny things like being given a different colour plate at dinner - this is why nursery is supporting us in an ASD referral. And if you're ASD - you are more likely anxious becuase of processing differences??

Before anyone says it - i strongly suspect DH may be ASD or ND in some way. A conversation he again is not willing to have. He gets obsessed over strange things online (everything from watches to pyramids to competitive eating).

So maybe I should be more sympathic - but actually I just see my anxious boy and his poss diagonsis (and of course have a younger kid too though he seems v typical in development) - and i Just think "I don't have the time or energy to support DH thorugh all this too, I'm in for the long haul with DS already"

I feel cruel about it all

But people saying "don't let DH influence DS" etc - I agree, but how exactly do I stop it?

If DH is ticking, or muttering stuff to himself, I can't pull him up on it, it feels nasty literally having a go at someone when they are tunnelling in their head.

Your advice was he just needs to stop so I assume you had taken your own advice and just stopped being anxious. Why would you expect OP's DH can just stop if you can't or haven't?

And all the people saying that they have anxiety but manage it in a way that no one would ever know and it has never impacted anyone around them - either have very mild anxiety or it has impacted your spouse / kids even though you think it hasn't. A phobia might not as it could be avoidable entirely but general or social anxiety - if it didn't impact your functioning in any way, you couldn't get a diagnosis of anxiety!

The thing about him exaggerating - is that he has flown quite a few times before for fun things since Ive known him and he just says 'it's differnet'

I remember once at the start of our relationshp - we went to a wedding in Greece - and we were flying back together - and he was hyperventiling and doing shots of vodka at the bar and pacing - and i was trying to calm him down and we bumped into a bloke who had been at the same wedding and he became totally normal.

He obviously says i'm really cruel because he was 'putting on a front' in front of the other guy but I sometimes think some of the lying on the floor stuff is to get my attention more than anything

GAH - i feel like a right cow writing that down.

@PabloPablo But people saying "don't let DH influence DS" etc - I agree, but how exactly do I stop it?

I think you have to insist, with a clear timeline, that he seeks professional help.

You may have to help him on his way - make the initial GP appointment and go with him for example or sit with him and research therapists online (check out Harley Therapy). But set a timeline and make clear to him that you can't live like this. You aren't being unreasonable to ask him to get help for a problem that is severely impacting your and your children's lives.

You could also think about what your limit is - what would make you reconsider the whole relationship? You might decide to tell him that if he doesn't actively seek help by x point you will have to consider whether the relationship can work long term.

But people saying "don't let DH influence DS" etc - I agree, but how exactly do I stop it?

I would make it a condition of the marriage continuing that he seek help and put in place coping strategies for these situations. Genuinely. I am not usually a LTB MNer but you are in a short window where your children are young enough and plastic enough to try and unpick some of this early learned behaviour.

I was agoraphobic and practically housebound for 2 years. I did not stop until I found a solution that helped me to recover. Then things improved rapidly once my DD was born. I had never been on a plane before because of my mum’s own anxieties and I was adamant that this is not the life I want my child to have. We both did our first flight when she was 2. It’s not about putting on a brave face or covering it up, it was about showing her that, yes Mummy does feel anxious - and that’s okay.

I understand how selfish anxiety disorders can be because you are just trapped in a state of introspection and people get unwillingly dragged in with you, where the world is on your terms. I could not be with someone who thinks this is acceptable and then to even try and perpetuate that onto your children. None of us who have experienced this would wish it on anyone, let alone people we love.

Absolutely.
They aren’t born with phobias. But they are in fact born with two fears

everything else is learnt behaviour.

So my options are no holiday or holiday with 2 kids and a DH that needs my support trjiigg it all??

No, you and the children go without him. I once took our 3 kids (aged 2, 3 and 5) on a 1 week holiday in Bavaria. We stayed in an apartment hotel and went on long walks, swimming, playgrounds, local activities. It was lots of fun.

I'd actually rethink whether I'd want to stay with this man if he continues to refuse to seek help. Your son's anxiety and your restricted life will only get worse. This is no way to live.

I think all you can do is decide whether you want to continue in the marriage as things are now, and if not then give him a deadline to make changes.

Re exaggerating to get your attention- what is he like generally? Is he someone who likes being babied and waited on? Honestly, I’d find it hard to move beyond a suspicion like this.

They aren’t born with phobias. But they are in fact born with two fears

everything else is learnt behaviour.

It's trickier than that. There are certain ages when certain fears can develop. All very obvious evolutionarily. Food at toddler age, heights at crawling age, flying later. Obvious why from a early hominid's POV.

And ND does make it more complicated. DD's risk assessment is off, as is mine. ADHD so it's in the opposite direction!

And try leaving him at home with the kids while you fly somewhere lovely. I suspect having to be a grown up adult is one of the things he's avoiding.

Please tell me where I said he needs to stop?

My comment was that anxiety is a learned behavior and he is now teaching that to his child.

Dont twist what I wrote, I didnt say he needs to stop at all. You interpreted that

I have every sympathy for folks with anxiety etc, I have issues myself with my ADHD and CPTSD.

What I don't have sympathy for, is when they refuse to do anything about it. I have a friend promises constantly, and she never does anything. Whenever she brings things up now, I simply tell her she needs to get some help and refuse to engage on the subject. I can't be doing with it.

The only thing I'd do here, is make an appointment for him to see a GP, and make sure he goes. It's time for him to put his big boy pants on, and start the ball rolling.

Oh bollocks I did say he needs to stop.

Apologies @musingsinmidlife I didnt realise I had. Really shouldnt mumsnet at work.

I know its not that easy to just stop being anxious, I meant he needs to stop showing it in front of the child.

When you are in a relationship with someone with ASD from my experience and from what I have read from both people with ASD and partners of those with ASD you mostly(not in all cases) have to accept that there will be some element of you taking a caring role for your partner as you would with other disabilities if you want things to happen. In this case I would call the GP and make an app for your dh to discuss his anxiety issues, then escort him to the GP surgery on the day if needed. Generally(not in all cases) just asking.a person with ASD to do something they really don't want to do is not enough, it won't get done. You have to actually start the action for them.

Most people cover up their own fears and anxieties for the sake of children.
It's very unfair of him to do what he is doing. Especially as he refuses to do anything to address his own anxiety.

YANBU.

Not unreasonable to expect him to take responsibility for his anxiety and deal with it like an adult. As you have suggested, a trip to the GP and some therapy would be a great start. Part of being a parent is committing to working on yourself in order to make sure you don't pass on fears to your children. Yes, it's hard work and he deserves support as he works on it. But he must actually do the work.