Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

957 replies

scratchedbymycat · 27/01/2023 12:42

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 01/02/2023 11:19

Absolutely @TangledWebOfDeception . The penis people take it and we mere women set up from scratch.

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:20

I'm a pragmatic realist, if transmen don't want to use a male toilet then they should use a disabled toilet, not all disabilities are visible, there's no queues for these toilets and if I'm caught short then I use them.

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 11:20

@Vebrithien

*Can someone please define what Queer theory is, what is wants and why it is worrying, with some references?

DD's school uses equality and inclusion resources based in Queer theory (the No Outsiders resources), and I need some evidence to take to the school on why this is a safeguarding concern.*

The Queer Theory 'bible' was written by Judith Butler and it is unreadable. Her writing is impenetrable. I think Stephen Pinker has commented on how he believed this over-the top intellectual wankery dense writing is particularly favoured in some intellectual disciplines because it calculatedly restricts readership initially to academia. (Only an academic is prepared to try decode that crap). Once it takes hold in academia, it then trickles down to students. These sort of disciplines are attractive to students because they are radical, edgy, new etc.

In broad brush strokes, Queer Theory argues that biological sex is irrelevant, completely so. It's like eye colour. It argues that gender identity is innate, and our expression of our innate gender identity is performative.

So if you feel like you are a woman, you 'perform' womanhood and in so doing signify to others that you are a woman. Lip stick, heels, fake boobs etc. This is what actually makes you a woman, and this is how penis becomes part of being a woman.

They theorise that if you 'queer' gender like this, it addresses inequality between the sexes.

For feminists, this is hideously regressive and even offensive to women. It suggests that say, a butch lesbian, is actually male because of the way she 'performs' her identity. It paves the way for suggesting that girls who play with trains are actually meant to be boys. Or boys who like make up are actually meant to be girls.

And in the background, irrespective of gender performances ... biological males (bizarrely, sex real), keep raping, killing and abusing biological females. But hey ...

OP posts:
Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 01/02/2023 11:21

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:20

I'm a pragmatic realist, if transmen don't want to use a male toilet then they should use a disabled toilet, not all disabilities are visible, there's no queues for these toilets and if I'm caught short then I use them.

Are you saying being a trans person is a disability?

TangledWebOfDeception · 01/02/2023 11:22

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 11:20

@Vebrithien

*Can someone please define what Queer theory is, what is wants and why it is worrying, with some references?

DD's school uses equality and inclusion resources based in Queer theory (the No Outsiders resources), and I need some evidence to take to the school on why this is a safeguarding concern.*

The Queer Theory 'bible' was written by Judith Butler and it is unreadable. Her writing is impenetrable. I think Stephen Pinker has commented on how he believed this over-the top intellectual wankery dense writing is particularly favoured in some intellectual disciplines because it calculatedly restricts readership initially to academia. (Only an academic is prepared to try decode that crap). Once it takes hold in academia, it then trickles down to students. These sort of disciplines are attractive to students because they are radical, edgy, new etc.

In broad brush strokes, Queer Theory argues that biological sex is irrelevant, completely so. It's like eye colour. It argues that gender identity is innate, and our expression of our innate gender identity is performative.

So if you feel like you are a woman, you 'perform' womanhood and in so doing signify to others that you are a woman. Lip stick, heels, fake boobs etc. This is what actually makes you a woman, and this is how penis becomes part of being a woman.

They theorise that if you 'queer' gender like this, it addresses inequality between the sexes.

For feminists, this is hideously regressive and even offensive to women. It suggests that say, a butch lesbian, is actually male because of the way she 'performs' her identity. It paves the way for suggesting that girls who play with trains are actually meant to be boys. Or boys who like make up are actually meant to be girls.

And in the background, irrespective of gender performances ... biological males (bizarrely, sex real), keep raping, killing and abusing biological females. But hey ...

It goes much further than that.

No boundaries.

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:22

I agree with your first statement, but those toilets are hardly overused and there's very few transgender in society, which means no inconvenience 😉

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2023 11:23

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:20

I'm a pragmatic realist, if transmen don't want to use a male toilet then they should use a disabled toilet, not all disabilities are visible, there's no queues for these toilets and if I'm caught short then I use them.

Again, they are not yours to give. GET your fucking hands off them.

I'm not waiting to use the disabled toilet in a Fucking wheelchair whilst some perfectly fit and well person goes for a shit in there

FUCK OFF

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 11:24

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 11:20

@Vebrithien

*Can someone please define what Queer theory is, what is wants and why it is worrying, with some references?

DD's school uses equality and inclusion resources based in Queer theory (the No Outsiders resources), and I need some evidence to take to the school on why this is a safeguarding concern.*

The Queer Theory 'bible' was written by Judith Butler and it is unreadable. Her writing is impenetrable. I think Stephen Pinker has commented on how he believed this over-the top intellectual wankery dense writing is particularly favoured in some intellectual disciplines because it calculatedly restricts readership initially to academia. (Only an academic is prepared to try decode that crap). Once it takes hold in academia, it then trickles down to students. These sort of disciplines are attractive to students because they are radical, edgy, new etc.

In broad brush strokes, Queer Theory argues that biological sex is irrelevant, completely so. It's like eye colour. It argues that gender identity is innate, and our expression of our innate gender identity is performative.

So if you feel like you are a woman, you 'perform' womanhood and in so doing signify to others that you are a woman. Lip stick, heels, fake boobs etc. This is what actually makes you a woman, and this is how penis becomes part of being a woman.

They theorise that if you 'queer' gender like this, it addresses inequality between the sexes.

For feminists, this is hideously regressive and even offensive to women. It suggests that say, a butch lesbian, is actually male because of the way she 'performs' her identity. It paves the way for suggesting that girls who play with trains are actually meant to be boys. Or boys who like make up are actually meant to be girls.

And in the background, irrespective of gender performances ... biological males (bizarrely, sex real), keep raping, killing and abusing biological females. But hey ...

And it makes the "terf" slur even more idiotic, because this theory - that being a woman is about skirts and makeup - actually has its roots in radical feminism. Which is also itself idiotic for that reason. Although I guess I can see why, at the time, Butler et al were looking for ways to invalidate all the reasons given for their repression.

TangledWebOfDeception · 01/02/2023 11:24

But @Vebrithien I'm not sure that delving into queer theory would be your best option for fighting what the school is doing. I don't think evidence on that will be the best course of action. Have you been in touch with Safe Schools Alliance/looked at their website? Might be a good place to start.

Sugarfree23 · 01/02/2023 11:24

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:20

I'm a pragmatic realist, if transmen don't want to use a male toilet then they should use a disabled toilet, not all disabilities are visible, there's no queues for these toilets and if I'm caught short then I use them.

Transmen are female and should be using the female toilets and facilities.

Transwomen are male and should be using the male or open toilets and facilities.

Leave the disabled for people who genuinely need them. And very often they are doubled up as nappy changing facilities as they enable people to get the pram inside. Very unfair to add to the queue of people using them.

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 11:25

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well, you've certainly convinced me that you're intelligent and well-reasoned.

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:25

Many of us have been saying this, but what are women athletes going to do? They need to boycott any sport where physical strength is a main component.

Sugarfree23 · 01/02/2023 11:26

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Go tie your dick in a knot then you might understand

TangledWebOfDeception · 01/02/2023 11:26

@Tygger has demonstrated that they have absolutely no understanding of the issues being discussed here. Or they are being deliberately disingenuous and acting in bad faith.

I won't engage further as it's a total waste of time but props to anyone who does for the potential benefit of others reading.

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:27

Agreed, but how are women going to make this happen?

lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2023 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

And the mask slips....

ReneBumsWombats · 01/02/2023 11:28

lifeturnsonadime · 01/02/2023 11:27

And the mask slips....

Gorilla in a blonde wig and stilettos.

Boiledbeetle · 01/02/2023 11:28

😁

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:29

I don't agree that there's insufficient disabled toilets to meet the requirements for a few hundred transmen, but if there was then we can build more.

Sugarfree23 · 01/02/2023 11:30

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:27

Agreed, but how are women going to make this happen?

Maybe ask yourself how are transwomen going to set up their own sports?

Why are they scared of competing with the real men?

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:31

I've never argued against setting an open category, the point is how do women achieve that aim, it won't be via just posting on mumsnet or tweets on twatter.

Somanyquestionstoaskaboutthis · 01/02/2023 11:33

@Tygger just yesterday I had a day out with DH, a wheelchair user. It already takes a lot more thought and preparation, where has wheelchair access, where doesn’t and needs avoiding. Where can we park, where only has 2 blue badge spaces for hundreds of people so we might as well forget.
When we got to our destination, a small seaside town where DH can get near the beach, the one accessible toilet in the town was now signed permanently out of order. The sign stated alternative accessible toilets were in X town 5km away, or Y town 5km in the other direction. So, back in the car ( takes 10 minutes), drive 5km, work out where to park as the blue badge spaces were in use, back out of the car ( takes 10 min) and find the bloody toilet. By which time DH was pretty desperate, as I’m sure you are aware a lot of disabilities include urgently needing toilets. We then had to wait for another person finished in the toilet.

But you just carryon with your fucking entitled attitude of “I’m alright Jack” about disabled facilities, women’s sport etc etc

Sorry for the off subject rant.

Sugarfree23 · 01/02/2023 11:33

Tygger · 01/02/2023 11:29

I don't agree that there's insufficient disabled toilets to meet the requirements for a few hundred transmen, but if there was then we can build more.

Are you paying for them?

Are you also going to be campaigning for transwomen beauty courses at college?
I'm sure there has to be a market for it. Shave your beard the right way.

scratchedbymycat · 01/02/2023 11:33

TangledWebOfDeception · 01/02/2023 11:26

@Tygger has demonstrated that they have absolutely no understanding of the issues being discussed here. Or they are being deliberately disingenuous and acting in bad faith.

I won't engage further as it's a total waste of time but props to anyone who does for the potential benefit of others reading.

But we do need more people to understand the detail of all this. @Tygger might be typical of lots reading. I didn't like the 'sexy voice' comment though @Tygger .

OP posts: