Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

[scratchedbymycat]

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

No matter how much muscle mass the average woman might build, the average man could, and would, still overpower her. Strong, feisty, bolshy women get raped/assulted/murdered too.

*assaulted.

Your attitude is despicable.

Oh, don't encourage him.

I know, I know.

Anyway.

To get back to the core message of this thread:

A man is always a man. The end.

Oh wow a man has come on to tell us that feminism means that men can have access to all things that women need.

Fabulous.

How very dare we feel uncomfortable about getting naked in front of the convicted rapist! Misandrists, every one of us.

But is this not exactly what people are trying to change. I don't care if a man sees me naked, I don't care if a doctor is male or female. I don't feel threatened by men. The defining point of feminism is equality it's not an unfair advantage over men which is what people are advocating. I don't want to be treat different to men, I don't want woman to have to have a "safe" space away from men, what we want is a society where sex doesn't even come into it. Where it's fine to show some boob, chest, leg etc. I think the whole trans debated has highlighted how we still separate by sex when it isn't needed!

You may have no boundaries when it comes to men and that is your prerogative. Many of us do have boundaries for a variety of reasons and it is not your call to give away our spaces to men.

My son does not want to share intimate spaces with girls as he has his own boundaries. My daughters likewise.

I am quite amazed that you are advocating for ‘society’ to override the personal boundaries of individuals. That is a most illiberal and unkind thing to suggest.

Do you think the little frail old lady who has never been undressed in front of any man except her husband for 70 years should be forced to accept intimate care from a man sent to her home? Regardless of the significantly increased risk of rape or sexual assault, is she not allowed any boundaries just because you don’t think she should have them?

No it’s not exactly what we are trying to change. What we are trying to change is that women should feel as safe as men do, have equality with me as regards to everything. Pay, opportunities, respect etc.

feminism doesn’t mean we want to be men, it means we shouldn’t be made to feel inferior and be treated as such.

it does not mean giving up boundaries which make us feel safe and comfortable and protect our dignity.

im afraid you don’t understand feminism

And you are most welcome to start this trend if you like by using the mens spaces. I'm certain if you explain that we should all be able to be mixed sex everywhere and you are taking the hit first to see just how well it works, they will understand.

They obviously dont require privacy, dignity etc just like you think women dont.

And back in the real world, until men see that they are the main problem, we will stick with single sex. For privacy, dignity and some safety.
When the class of men quit rsping, sexually assaulting, intimidating us as a class, we can rethink the whole single sex thing. So when hell freezes over.

You are an MRA's wet dream.

You are an MRA's wet dream. That's better.

And why only stranger rapists, why not all rapists?

It's a man's right to rape his property, innit.

Grumpybutfunny
You sound like one of those cool girls who is desperately seeking a well done and a pat on the head from a certain type of man.

If you don't want to have any boundaries then that's fine. Nobody is stopping you having no boundaries, but don't try to trample over women who believe in personal boundaries and safeguarding.

Hang on, if only women would become body builders they wouldn't get attacked? Have you any idea about the difference in grip strength alone between men and women? On average a man of 70 or 80 will still have stronger grip strength than a fit healthy 20 year old woman. Women could spend their lives in the gym lifting weight and your average !an would still be bigger and stronger.

You might think undressing in a separate room is oppression but I'm a realist and prefer to deal with the world as it actually is rather than how I would prefer it to be. It would be incredibly stupid to advise women to put themselves at risk because they resent the reality of male violence against them.

When you say you feel safer around men rather than women what exactly do you mean? The statistics are very clear that men are a far greater to risk to men and women than women are.

If you feel mine or anyone else's post is bullying then you should report it. Pushback against bad ideas that fly in the face of evidence is not bullying.

It's oppression to not want to get your boobs out in front of males?! Jesus wept.

In the meantime the sane amongst us will make rules for the world we ACTUALLY live in rather than what we would like it to be.

@Grumpybutfunny

Sometimes treating everyone the same is the most unfair thing you can do. I think you come across as being steeped in Queer Theory.

When I look at feminism/women's rights etc I think about the most disadvantaged/vulnerable women and how policy impacts them.

You should try it.

Exactly. Many women and girls have very little agency in life. Many have awful experiences. The rest of us need to have their backs!

I will accept woman need protection when self defence is taught in schools and it's normal for woman to build muscle mass yet they are still getting attacked

well if the boys are doing the same then they’ll still be stronger

atleast they don't bully people for having different views or looks

could you define bully please, cos quite obviously males ‘bully’ people for having different views and looks…it’s completely nonsensical to say otherwise

That was a very weak and failed attempt at putting us in our place. It is not bullying to push back against stupidity.

Yeah, I know when I'm walking through the woods I'm always worried another woman is going to jump out and judge my looks. Lots of mysogony in your comments. Your try at manipulation and gaslighting isn't working here is it? I've really had enough of your bollocks (pun intended)

I see feminism as being about choices. Women should have the right to choose to be an engineer, to choose to have a doctor of the same sex, to choose to wear trousers, to choose^ to change only in single-sex spaces.

You may well choose not to do any of these things, and you are no less a feminist for wearing a pink frilly dress and getting a job as a secretary. You do not however have the right to stop other women from being able to make these choices for themselves - that would be unfeminist.

You say that you do not think that any of these protections should be necessary, and I agree with you there. In a just world they would not be. However, I do not share your idealism, I am a realist who sees that we do not live in a just world and that this is likely to remain the status quo for the foreseeable future. If/when the world has changed for the better, then perhaps discussion of whether single sex spaces should be provided can be had, but until we do live in a perfect world we should keep all safeguards in place.

@Grumpybutfunny was never a child, will never be ill, will never get old.

This is scarcely a step from victim blaming. If a man attacks or tries to rape you, why did you not kick his ass?

It's your own fault for not working out, for being a child, for being ill, for being disabled, for getting old. Would we get a pass if we were outnumbered?

I would put all stranger rapists to death so he wouldn't be around to rent the room.

Always assuming that he's been caught of course, almost all of them haven't.

Although it's great that this particular case has really exposed the reality of what allowing self-ID can result in I am not confident that, once the media storm has died down, much will really change.

I really hope it does but as other pps have said so many of our institutions have been Stonewalled and the leader of the party which may well be in power at Westminster after the next election and many of his senior colleagues are fully in support of this.

Perhaps when the government challenge to the GRR bill comes to court more light will be shone on the harm being caused by this ideology, but whether bodies like the NHS or schools will actually change their approach remains to be seen.

I hate being so pessimistic but I feel that unless the leaders of the government and other national organisations can come out and affirm that biological males are not and cannot ever be women and women are entitled to single sex spaces then nothing will really change.

What worries me most is that the younger generation are being indoctrinated on the basis of "be kind" to accept that TWAW. My 17 year old nephew thinks this is a load of nonsense but, worryingly, my 20 year old niece believes it.

There are also so many other problems in the UK at the moment that I fear that this issue will be pushed to the end of the queue and indeed I have regularly seen comments on here that there are many more important things to worry about politically. Yes people will be horrified by what they have seen in Scotland but they are probably totally unaware of all the other ongoing problems related to the trans issue e.g Girl Guides, sports clubs to name but a few.

I am glad that this issue is being scrutinised at the moment but also feel that if things do not change before the next election I will struggle to support any of the parties.

...unless the leaders of the government and other national organisations can come out and affirm that biological males are not and cannot ever be women and women are entitled to single sex spaces then nothing will really change.

Absolutely. And that is exactly what our collective demand must be.