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Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

957 replies

scratchedbymycat · 27/01/2023 12:42

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
20
SalaDaeng · 29/01/2023 02:52

Vebrithien · 28/01/2023 17:19

No Outsiders message to the Deputy Head. I had highlighted that the statutory duties of schools use "sex".

Hi,

I do use the term gender rather than sex in primary schools. This is for two reasons:

I think the term sex muddies the issue. It means something else and young children can read it and think it’s funny. I also don’t want Y2 children going home saying “We learned about sex today” when they actually really talked about gender.
I think gender as a term is useful when you later talk about gender reassignment. You have your gender but then you can also reassign your gender. They fit together – it makes for uncomplicated explanations and conversations further up the school.

For this reason I am clear that the poster is not an Equality Act poster and it doesn’t mention the equality act on there. If we’re talking specifically about the Equality Act with older children and they use the term sex, I will correct them, but I think it is the concept behind the language for younger children that is more important – all different, all equal. The aim of the poster is to make clear and accessible for children all the ways we are different and all the ways we are accepted.

We sell hundreds of these posters and I am often re-ordering them from the printers. Every time I re-order I do consider changing the gender bubble to a sex bubble. But the more I think about it, I always conclude that when I teach children, and they list the ways we are all different, what words do they use? I have never heard a child use the term “sex” to describe boys and girls. Children in my school tend to say “you can be a different religion, different race, boys and girls, LGBT” In the end I don’t think it matters. Some people are definitely trying to make it a political issue, I just want children to know that there are boys and girls and everyone is equal.

I hope that helps. I’m interested if you think we should change the gender bubble in the future. Let me know your thoughts, eager to discuss.

Great to hear that no outsiders is going so well in your school.

I am so thankful I no longer have children at school.

SalaDaeng · 29/01/2023 03:56

Jacopo · 28/01/2023 15:33

As the previous poster has just said, some of the worst gaslighting has been from the moderators on Mumsnet themselves, who’ve insisted on deleting threads like this or moving them to the Feminist topic. This issue affects all women and should be discussed on AIBU or anywhere else the OP wants.

Look up the list of directors of Mumsnet.
At least we do have a FWR section, (now split into sex and gender vs anything else vaguely related to feminism) but it explains a lot of the moderating decisions and the separation of any discussion of this topic from the rest of the site.
I am very glad to see that some of the discussion is finally being allowed on the main boards, but it has literally taken years and the escalating abuse of women and girls to get to this point.
I would urge anyone who was previously unaware of this movement to remove women's rights to go to the FWR boards and do some reading.

Tygger · 29/01/2023 08:04

Signed and circulated.

Helleofabore · 29/01/2023 08:14

Jacopo · 28/01/2023 15:33

As the previous poster has just said, some of the worst gaslighting has been from the moderators on Mumsnet themselves, who’ve insisted on deleting threads like this or moving them to the Feminist topic. This issue affects all women and should be discussed on AIBU or anywhere else the OP wants.

While moderation has been stricter in the past, it is worth noting that after each court cases have been won and other significant decisions announced, moderation on MN has changed.

It could be staff.
It could also be that less mass reporting is happening as the all the
‘you are all just far right wingers/haters/ phobic/old dinosaurs/ the minority’ posts have been shown to be just projection.

Either way, there are less of those.
Now we get more of the ‘I agree with some things, but you are all so extreme, far right wing, the ‘wrong sort of feminist’ whining arguments.

And less deletions and less thread moves.

What has been noticeable this week is, with these horrific cases being exposed (and they have kept coming) even those poster’s have now disappeared.
They realise they would be seen as complicit if they tone policed, if they tried in any way to dismiss this was happening.

You only have to look at what has happened to Susie McCabe on Debate Night after it was pointed out that her words defended Bryson. That she was so caught up in her moral superiority, she inadvertently defended Bryson being in any type of female prison while defending pronouns!

So many others. So much so that by yesterday, no one who posted earlier in the week who still tried the ‘segregated’ line, felt that they could present any argument. Because none came and posted.

It is fucked up that it got to this point.

Now we even have women prominently pushing back on pronoun fuckwittery.

I think modding on MN has actually reflected the changes in society’s acceptance on this. I am so grateful for this threads this weekend being left unmoved.

Oh, and what else it shows…. Is that mature arsed posters CAN fucking scroll past a thread they don’t want to engage with.

Who the fuck knew they could do it!

They should be reminded of that every single fucking time the ‘not another [insert term] thread!’ is used.

Helleofabore · 29/01/2023 08:17

I have now got to the point that I look in askance at those using
‘live and let live’! That now reads as a softer version of ‘I am alright Jack’.

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 08:59

Helleofabore · 29/01/2023 08:17

I have now got to the point that I look in askance at those using
‘live and let live’! That now reads as a softer version of ‘I am alright Jack’.

Just wait until you read Robin's new transwomen detection rules from last night. Your going to have your mind blown!

Beeswood · 29/01/2023 09:15

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 08:59

Just wait until you read Robin's new transwomen detection rules from last night. Your going to have your mind blown!

Where is this, please?

Beeswood · 29/01/2023 09:21

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 08:59

Just wait until you read Robin's new transwomen detection rules from last night. Your going to have your mind blown!

It's ok I found it.

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 09:26

Beeswood · 29/01/2023 09:15

Where is this, please?

It's the second debate they did in this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/sarah-phillimore-and-robin-moira-white-interviewed-by-andrew-doyle

The first video is right at the start and the second video link of below

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SxGBe8In7X8

Hopefully this works. The bit you want is 1hr and 20 mins in.

I think.

He basically didn't have a good argument for the double rapist going to a male prison other than he probablyy isn't trans as he's a bad man then it just gets worse for him.or if you go to the last few pages you'll see our comments on his words

RichardBarrister · 29/01/2023 09:39

The problem is that any safeguarding/respect is blown away by the acceptance that a transwoman is a woman. I know a man who is a doctor and now says he's a woman. He is 'officially' a woman, on his professional page etc. So what happens if a woman patient says she wants a female doctor and he turns up?

The policy in many practices is to demand to accept them as female. This has happened to a friend and she felt coerced into accepting an intimate procedure from a trans identifying male who seemed to take pleasure in it.

A London GP was interviewed and celebrated in various publications telling of his transition and how some female patients at the practice assumed he was a new female doctor when he returned after a few months off.

Many of the patients had religious beliefs that meant they couldn’t have intimate examinations done by a male doctor but he was delighted to report that as they thought he was female they were now happy for him to do that. It was a source of great joy to him.

I can’t imagine how violated those women would feel when they found out and the long term consequences to their health if they can’t trust that a female doctor is actually female. It was bad enough for my friend who knew he wasn’t female.

SalaDaeng · 29/01/2023 09:45

I remember reading about that GP at the time and thinking surely he must be breaking all kinds of ethical codes. It is really awful narcistic behaviour. Using those poor women as props for his fetish and from a position of power too. Disgusting. How his colleagues can stomach his behaviour is beyond me.

RichardBarrister · 29/01/2023 10:02

SalaDaeng · 29/01/2023 09:45

I remember reading about that GP at the time and thinking surely he must be breaking all kinds of ethical codes. It is really awful narcistic behaviour. Using those poor women as props for his fetish and from a position of power too. Disgusting. How his colleagues can stomach his behaviour is beyond me.

Yes, truly awful. The trouble is, with the way things are currently, any colleague that said anything would be mostly likely reported to the GMC for transphobia and hauled through a tribunal.

So many regulatory bodies and unions are completely captured so any brave individual that stands up to this is cut adrift with no support.

There is a case currently going through the courts where a social worker was suspended after someone reported her for sharing a womens rights post on her personal Facebook page (her limits were set to friends only).

The trans activists know that even if the outcome of these reports does not find wrongdoing, the process of being suspended and dragged through disciplinary action is the punishment. They also know that they can use this against women with impunity.

Beeswood · 29/01/2023 10:26

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 09:26

It's the second debate they did in this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/sarah-phillimore-and-robin-moira-white-interviewed-by-andrew-doyle

The first video is right at the start and the second video link of below

m.youtube.com/watch?v=SxGBe8In7X8

Hopefully this works. The bit you want is 1hr and 20 mins in.

I think.

He basically didn't have a good argument for the double rapist going to a male prison other than he probablyy isn't trans as he's a bad man then it just gets worse for him.or if you go to the last few pages you'll see our comments on his words

Thank you so much.
Sarah wiped the floor with Robin.

Empowermenomore · 29/01/2023 10:46

@Vebrithien its a difficult balance but using gender at that early age to differentiate boys and girls might feed into stereotyping the sexes that is the problem we have now with ‘living as a woman’ whatever that means.

The word sexes is better than sex. Maybe you could say the human sexes, the two sexes: boys and girls. Protection of biological sexes, etc

gender stereotyping is very damaging for girls. Most people will draw a male for the word scientist for example.

Have you come across this lovely book? www.waterstones.com/book/my-body-is-me/9781527251540
My body is me!
Rachel Rooney is the author and she had a backlash when there was all that insane talk about people being born in the wrong body. I highly recommend this book for primary kids.

Boiledbeetle · 29/01/2023 11:06

Beeswood · 29/01/2023 10:26

Thank you so much.
Sarah wiped the floor with Robin.

Didn't she the amazing woman that she is!

IcakethereforeIam · 29/01/2023 11:08

I don't know if this has been covered on this thread, but does anyone know how the rapist got on the course. Was it his idea, a Doctor's, to help with dysphoria? I'm assuming someone was overseeing his bail, did they sign off on this? Did they have to? What did the college know? I suspect they have dealt with offenders in the past. It's not wrong per se, could be part of rehabilitation, so what are their procedures? How lax were his bail conditions, or were they not lax at all. Was this course something he was encouraged to do?

Sorry for all the questions. They're mostly rhetorical, but if anyone does have the answers I'd really like to know.

scratchedbymycat · 29/01/2023 11:13

It's very simple. He identifies as a woman, therefore he IS a women. He was just a woman applying to do a beauty course. Nothing weird about that at all. No questions asked. In fact, if questions had been asked, it would have been considered discriminatory and unkind and cruel.

That's how serial rapists get to watch teenage girls stripping to almost naked.

OP posts:
TheShellBeach · 29/01/2023 11:14

IcakethereforeIam · 29/01/2023 11:08

I don't know if this has been covered on this thread, but does anyone know how the rapist got on the course. Was it his idea, a Doctor's, to help with dysphoria? I'm assuming someone was overseeing his bail, did they sign off on this? Did they have to? What did the college know? I suspect they have dealt with offenders in the past. It's not wrong per se, could be part of rehabilitation, so what are their procedures? How lax were his bail conditions, or were they not lax at all. Was this course something he was encouraged to do?

Sorry for all the questions. They're mostly rhetorical, but if anyone does have the answers I'd really like to know.

I think that he'd changed his name by then, so any checks would have been pointless.

TangledWebOfDeception · 29/01/2023 11:30

I would like to emphasise again that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER A MAN IS A RAPIST/PREDATOR OR NOT. He is a man, therefore he should not be in the room when girls/women are in states of undress. That is wrong, in every case. Any decent man would know that and would not demand or engineer to be there.

nilsmousehammer · 29/01/2023 11:36

TangledWebOfDeception · 29/01/2023 11:30

I would like to emphasise again that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER A MAN IS A RAPIST/PREDATOR OR NOT. He is a man, therefore he should not be in the room when girls/women are in states of undress. That is wrong, in every case. Any decent man would know that and would not demand or engineer to be there.

This.

A good person does not treat women like this.

Rainbowshit · 29/01/2023 11:38

IcakethereforeIam · 29/01/2023 11:08

I don't know if this has been covered on this thread, but does anyone know how the rapist got on the course. Was it his idea, a Doctor's, to help with dysphoria? I'm assuming someone was overseeing his bail, did they sign off on this? Did they have to? What did the college know? I suspect they have dealt with offenders in the past. It's not wrong per se, could be part of rehabilitation, so what are their procedures? How lax were his bail conditions, or were they not lax at all. Was this course something he was encouraged to do?

Sorry for all the questions. They're mostly rhetorical, but if anyone does have the answers I'd really like to know.

I wonder if he was using it as part of his "living as a woman" "proof" to satisfy the social requirement for a GRC.

LolaSmiles · 29/01/2023 11:40

I would like to emphasise again that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER A MAN IS A RAPIST/PREDATOR OR NOT. He is a man, therefore he should not be in the room when girls/women are in states of undress. That is wrong, in every case. Any decent man would know that and would not demand or engineer to be there.
This!
Decent men wouldn't be up in arms demanding access to places women and girls are in states of undress because they know that only creeps would stamp their feet and have a tantrum about the right to see half naked women without their consent.

Rainbowshit · 29/01/2023 11:40

RichardBarrister · 29/01/2023 09:39

The problem is that any safeguarding/respect is blown away by the acceptance that a transwoman is a woman. I know a man who is a doctor and now says he's a woman. He is 'officially' a woman, on his professional page etc. So what happens if a woman patient says she wants a female doctor and he turns up?

The policy in many practices is to demand to accept them as female. This has happened to a friend and she felt coerced into accepting an intimate procedure from a trans identifying male who seemed to take pleasure in it.

A London GP was interviewed and celebrated in various publications telling of his transition and how some female patients at the practice assumed he was a new female doctor when he returned after a few months off.

Many of the patients had religious beliefs that meant they couldn’t have intimate examinations done by a male doctor but he was delighted to report that as they thought he was female they were now happy for him to do that. It was a source of great joy to him.

I can’t imagine how violated those women would feel when they found out and the long term consequences to their health if they can’t trust that a female doctor is actually female. It was bad enough for my friend who knew he wasn’t female.

That is disgusting. That is against the rights of those women to their religious beliefs.

TheMoonHangsOverIdlewild · 29/01/2023 11:43

TangledWebOfDeception · 29/01/2023 11:30

I would like to emphasise again that IT DOES NOT MATTER WHETHER A MAN IS A RAPIST/PREDATOR OR NOT. He is a man, therefore he should not be in the room when girls/women are in states of undress. That is wrong, in every case. Any decent man would know that and would not demand or engineer to be there.

Reminds me of a conversation I had with a bloke online, he said "It's going to get to the stage where you'll all (women and girls) be actually safer coming into the men's toilets. I said in some ways you're right as at least we'd know you weren't the perverts and rapists trying to bloody get into ours.

scratchedbymycat · 29/01/2023 11:55

A friend and I had this exact same conversation yesterday. Both saying we'd probably feel safer in the mens toilets soon.

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