Beauty students asked to strip in front of trans rapist at college AFTER sex attacks

[scratchedbymycat]

My AIBU title taken from this news article:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/beauty-students-asked-strip-front-29063499

This whole 'Isla Bryson' cluster-fuck has me angrier than I can describe.

These girls had to accept and trust this vile individual in their beauty course on the basis of Isla's claim to be a woman, nothing more. They even tolerated abuse from Isla.

They were not told this individual was facing charges of rape. The college claim they didn't know either. Because 'Isla' said he was a women, these young women felt they had no choice but to strip to virtually naked in front of him. Failing to do so would be 'bigoted'.

But he also happens to be a serial rapist. Young women, some possibly aged 16 or so, stripping to virtually naked while a serial rapist watches. If this was my daughter I would be going mad.

Where is the safeguarding?

AIBU to feel viscerally angry with all our politicians about this?

Fucking bastards the lot of them it's all about abusing women and children so they can get their sexual kicks. I'm sick of pussyfooting around the issue. The transmen, who knows what drives them, they very rarely get a look in with any if this, and that's because in the main it is men who are driving this. The aim is to blur sexual boundaries to the point that women have nowhere to call their own. Nowhere to be safe. And sexually abused children can't even correctly tell the police the sex of their attacker, so why would the police believe them on anything else they divulge.

I agree the whole thing is upsetting but I'd say the main factor was that this was a rapist rather than their gender/sex/transidentity.
I'm not sure quite how safeguarding could be applied. They were a student, not a member of staff so their criminal record would be their own business surely. I'm sure there are many students with convictions. Also, the nature of the course surely involves seeing people in states of undress, rather like a nurse.
Just to be clear, I'm really not implying that some of the female students might understandably feel sickened, I'm just not sure if anyone has done anything wrong...other than them of course. Let's say it wasn't a trans person but a cis male or even a female with an unknown pending case for a sex crime. What should have been done differently?

I am sorry but are all male students allowed to be in areas where female students are stripping off? It should also be pointed out that some of these students are very young.
Safeguarding went out the window as soon as the College allowed this man to be treated as if he were a woman.

people on here need to realise the allies against this dangerous lunacy are small c conservatives like me. I’m way more likely more likely to read the DM than the Guardian. It’s the left that support this. Like Sturgeon, Starmer, the Greens…look at that Labour Mp who said the Conservative woman mp was ‘transphobic’ because she raised the safety aspect of it all. Yes I know lots of Labour voters don’t support it but the mps do and at the moment that’s what matters.

There's also the wispa incident where a mother complained about an erect penis in the female area.

She was called a bigot, told it was a female penis and that she should have taught her 9 year old daughter it was rude to look.

The transwomen turned out to be a sex offender and has subsequently been arrested.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/exclusive-transgender-fugitive-who-spurred-wi-spa-riots-bares-all/

This will be deleted but I don't care.

The fact is that any male who is using areas where females are undressing is a predator. They know it will make the females uncomfortable and they do it anyway.

Thank you for taking the time to answer my question so thoughtfully. Naively, it hadn’t even crossed my mind with regard to the pharmaceutical industry. Yes Irish women are having a really bad deal (as we knew they would. Barbie Kardashian anyone?) richard do you feel the tide is turning? Particularly in light of this weeks events? Something feels different to me. People that were afraid last week, don’t seem to be as afraid this week. I’ve seen less people tie themselves up in knots over ‘misgendering’ for instance.

With regard to the man in the YMCA showers (apologies I can’t remember who posted this), it’s truly amazing isn’t it (🙄)how many of the people involved in this, working in the ‘community’ and at the top of much of this, have very dubious sexual history, from writing anime ‘porn’ (or whatever it is), to flashing, right through to more serious sexual offences. Bradley, Yaniv, White, Rennie, Graham, Challoner, Wilson, Dolatowski. Those are just a few names I have been able to rattle off without evening thinking about it. Scary stuff. It’s also interesting that I’ve been able to say things on here this week that previously I’ve had posts deleted for, and in one case had my account suspended.

Gosh they were a sex offender? I’m shocked I tell you, shocked 🙄

What would have been different is that a 'normal' man wouldn't have been in there. The activity was intended to be sex segregated. The issue is a trans one because the girls were told by those in authority and by Isla that he was a woman, and they had to accept that. When they were uncomfortable about it, because they could plainly see it was bollocks, they were labelled bigoted.

This is where the college has been thrown under a bus along with the girls safeguarding

The course is women only, but the TWAW movement means they can not discriminate.

Even doing background checks they couldn't discriminate because of innocent until proven.

I am curious as to what eventually caused the college to throw him off the course after 3 months.

It's not that they do it anyway.

It's they do it for this exact reason.

people should ask themselves honestly why would a man be so desperate to be in the female changing room. It's a because he wants to look at naked women if possible AND because they get a sexual thrill from knowing we are uncomfortable. I'd go as far to say the uncomfortable feelings they know they cause in women is more of a sexual turn on for them than those just wanting to oggle tits.

Let's say it wasn't a trans person but a cis male or even a female with an unknown pending case for a sex crime. What should have been done differently?

Let's stop with the cis nonsense. It's used to make women a subset of their own sex class and confers victim status on anyone "claiming" a trans identity which is exactly how a man was accepted onto a beauty training course which would ordinarily have been sex segregated.

You are part of the problem so please stop coercing women with language because it leads, as it did in this case, to abuse.

Women are women just women.

Men can never be women.

We are not cis women we are just women.

Men don't have helpful signs attached telling women which ones are rapists or which ones are going to be rapists.

95% of sex crimes are committed by men.

Women don't have penises. Penises are what men rape with.

Women don't continually remind other women of their place in society through catcalling etc.

Women aren't inherently physically stronger than other women. Women don't hold structural power over other women.

The EXTREMELY UNLIKELY scenario of being on a beauty course with a female sex offender of the same seriousness as a male rapist still doesn't hold the same gravity as being on a beauty course with a rapey man.

We safeguard by not admitting men to various spaces for women. We safeguard by not elevating some people to special status above suspicion ( trans, police, priests, celebrities).

First you say this:

The main factor was that this was a rapist rather than their gender/sex/trans identity.

And then you say this:

I'm not sure quite how safeguarding could be applied.

Safeguarding requires treating them like any other male student when it comes to getting undressed in class. And making sure the same rules apply in a mixed sex class regardless of trans identity. So if there are safeguarding differences between what men can do among women students and what women can do among women students then those differences still apply. No cheeky pushing the limits for a trans student.

There are basically two practical ways to do safeguarding: either a trans student has to disclose their status and is treated as their birth sex for all mixed-sex activities and is excluded from an activity that is only safe as single-sex; or no-one has to disclose and all activities are treated as mixed sex no matter what sex or gender people say they are or appear to be - which means any activity which can't be made safe as a mixed-sex activity has to stop for the whole class.

Safeguarding adults doesn't mean knowing if any individual student was accused of rape or not. No-one has a duty to inform the college.

Safeguarding doesn't assume that anyone is a rapist. It protects against the people who might be. Trans identity doesn't change that.

Which is a longwinded way of saying, yes it is about their sex and gender and trans identity and it's not about whether the college found out that one person is accused of rape or not.

@AmaryllisNightAndDay
It wouldn't be a mixed sex class, it was a single gender course, him going trans caused the college to throw their safeguarding out the window.

They all championed him and called her a transphobic bigot, until it turned out he was a sex offender and was erect at the time with the little girl there. Then the community did what it always does when a transwoman is caught out and turns "transwoman" into "man in a dress".

"We safeguard by not admitting men to various spaces for women. We safeguard by not elevating some people to special status above suspicion ( trans, police, priests, celebrities)".

Thank you. This. It's the only way, the ONLY WAY, to try and guarantee female safety as much as is possible.

The course is women only, but the TWAW movement means they can not discriminate.

I don't think it is though. I have had a look on the website for the college under discussion and there is no mention of women only - but there is no mention of spray tanning either, just waxing. The larger college in Glasgow which offers similar courses has a wide range of courses, and features a young man promoting its spa therapy course, which includes body massage.

www.cityofglasgowcollege.ac.uk/courses/nq-complementary-and-spa-therapies-scqf-level-6-2023-08-28

The issue here isn't men on these courses. If we're widening the bandwith of what it means to be a man then of course men should be free to get their waxes or eyelashes tinted and have other men trained to perform those services. No problem with any of that. The problem is that women were being asked to pretend that the person enrolled on their course was definitely not a man, despite the penis and sexual offending. And that voicing their discomfort about having "Annie" participate in all aspects of the class made them transphobic. Because Annie's feels are more important than the dignity and safety of a class of 20 odd teenage girls.

@Sugarfree23 Blimey, was that official? That the course was supposed to be for women only but by gender not sex? If so I'm not sure if that's even legal, that could be discriminatory against other men who want to beauticians.

For safeguarding purposes a single gender course needs to be treated as a mixed sex course. Even if it is mostly single sex.

Sure, the legal position is complicated and I'm not sure everyone gets it. There's been a lot of confusion about sex and gender and this case highlights where the confusion can end up.

I was mostly trying to make the point that it very much is about sex and gender.

Rainbowshit · Today 07:41

The fact is that any male who is using areas where females are undressing is a predator. They know it will make the females uncomfortable and they do it anyway.

They don't do it "anyway," they do it precisely because women and girls are uncomfortable an frightened and that's what they get off on.

They definitely said on the radio its normally a single sex course.

Agreed.

THIS IS WHAT WE TOLD YOU WOULD HAPPEN!!

As SOON as you say, oh but a man can actually be a woman if he says so. And if he says so then he is, and you can’t have any boundaries around it because that would be hateful/bigotry/phobia...

THIS IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

It has never been ‘hate’. It has been women desperately warning, desperately telling you that this is FALSE, it is WRONG, it is DANGEROUS.

Well yes. Because 99% of beauty therapists are women. Things like midwifery are probably normally a single sex course too. By convention and practise, not law.

Again, I am not defending the actions of this man in enrolling on the course knowing it would be full of 16/17 year old girls and then making them feel uncomfortable. Any decent man wanting to train as a beauty therapist would have the self-awareness to step out of the tanning, or speak to the college in advance to find another male student to buddy up with.

The whole issue here was that neither the college nor the students were even allowed to go there, question or raise issues, because they were told they had to deny reality and pretend the muscular person with the face tattoo was a woman called Annie.