Was I Unreasonable - wheelchair Space

[Nicetomeetyou25]

Hi, My DC ( 10 ) is a wheelchair user, we have to take public transport to school and honestly where we live is a nightmare. Some of the London buses still have a very small area where wheelchairs and pushchairs can go. I know else where there is no priority but on London buses it is stated very clearly wheelchairs are priority and pushchair need to be prepared to fold. School runs can be crazy because there tends to be a lot of pushchairs. I never ask a pushchair to get off and always wait for a bus that we can fit on. Every day a particular school mum beats me to the bus stop and she really does make sure she stands in the correct place to get on first and I usually allow this.

yesterday I could not be late home so I collected DC a tiny bit early and took them to the bus stop before the school bus stop. Got on bus and we arrived at the bus stop with usual pram getting on ( I should have added that she has a double stroller )

I had placed DC in the correct wheelchair position so sideways with back against the wall where stairs are as it is how the buses even say you have to.
she asks me to turn DC around so there was more space for her to get in side by side. I refused. She said she didn’t understand why I wouldn’t. I explained that I wasn’t willing to change position as it wasn’t safe.
She goes to bus driver and kicks off to advice him that there was enough space of I just turned the wheelchair around and placed it behind the pole.
she got off in a bit of a strop and called me selfish.
was I being unreasonable ?

I can’t imagine waiting at a bus stop, seeing a wheelchair user and just getting on the bus and using the wheelchair space for my buggy while the wheelchair user waited for the next bus.

What the fuck is wrong with people?!

@C8H10N4O2 I agree. It’s very hard to stand up and cause a fuss and everyone just staring so I tend to stay quiet. It’s all new for me and I’m still learning. It has defo been a real eye opener though

The only time I ever took my DD (in a wheelchair) on a bus we put her chair the wrong way around and the driver immediately instructed us to turn it around into the correct position (which you were in). So you were not being unreasonable to refuse to turn around. The stated position is considered to be the safest in the event of a crash.

@EVHead in London that’s totally normal 🤣 If I’m at a bus stop first and a stroller appears I can see their angst already haha

Of course you weren't being unreasonable.

Prior to The Equality Act, had a major row on the bus when a buggy user refused to move for a wheelchair user to get on the bus (who was waiting in heavy rain...)

The bus driver said he couldn't make the buggy owner move as was a paying customer, but I was really vocal, was told by buggy person to, 'go back to my country... and that I didn't understand travelling with children.

When I spoke to bus company they said although the buggy owner should have moved, there was no obligations blah blah blah.

Lots has changed with The Equality Act, so maybe email the bus company and suggest that drivers could benefit from further training?

I would contact The bus company and ask them to remind their drivers that wheelchairs take priority.

thankfully I rarely have to use buses with ds but twice when I have the driver has refused to move until the prams where moved so he could be safely in place

It's like people who say someone with a disability should do online shopping, even though that person may want to shop in store - it's just a bit tricker. STOP trying to hide us away we won't go silently.

You were in the right, 100%. Is there not a sign that says wheelchairs take priority over buggies that you could point to? There is on our local buses.

I would suggest texting British Transport Police and asking for advice, saying it’s a daily problem. I’ve always found them very responsive. And I doubt she’d argue with a police officer quoting the law.

I would try and drum the message home that wheelchairs take priority over buggies. See it as doing a favour for your DC by teaching the next generation!

Do you have a loud, more assertive friend? If you do, rope her in to manage the crowd a bit for a few days. "Hold back guys, there's a wheelchair here, so let them on first, bus won't leave without you." You might find that parents who have had a disabled DC longer have this perfected. Also get the school to send an email, drum it home.

Once you have a couple of considerate, aware parents in the crowd, it will hopefully change the dynamic. Would CF mum really say no if someone else said to let the wheelchair on first? She's bargaining on nobody saying anything.

Bloody hell. She's a cow. I remember getting off a few stops earlier in the rain to let a wheelchair user onto the bus because I had a choice, they didn't. Having said that, London bus drivers are amazing- they will refuse to move if there's a standoff between a wheelchair and pushchair user and will ask the pushchair person to get off the bus. I've seen it happen when I've travelled without my little ones.

YANBU

I can imagine it must be extremely annoying for anyone to have to wait for up to 3 buses because there is demand at a certain time with lots of pushchairs. Especially if they have small, tired children who just want to get home from school. But this is a known situation for them. They know perfectly well that there is a wheelchair user who will always need that space at that time. Usually, it's unusual and unexpected to need to move for a wheelchair user. So surely, in this case, she could just not take her double buggy on the school run?? Or pre fold it at the bus stop? She could use a sling and a single buggy. Or a sling and get the toddler to walk. She can plan ways around it and you can't.

But she's got used to having her own way. I don't think I could be assertive either (in fact, I'm useless, I'd probably have moved and used my body as the back support for the chair, even if it was unsafe, and then beat myself up about doing so all evening!) But, if you feel you can't speak up, maybe someone else could help you? I find I have much more confidence sticking up for someone else than I do for myself. It's easier, somehow.

I think you should write calmly to the transport provider, stating the bus service and the stop and remind them of their priorities under the Equality Act and that wheelchair spaces are for wheelchairs not for buggies.

Of course Yanbu. A pushchair can be folded, a wheelchair can't. In future, do try and advocate for the space, though I know it's tough. I am a Londoner too and always offered to either get off or fold if I saw a wheelchair user (I initially got a difficult to fold buggy so getting off would have been easier, but my choice to get it, so up to me to deal with it)

Can you get an adapted car with motability so you don't have to do the school runs anymore?

I don't understand. Wheelchairs take priority over pram users. I know as I had a double buggy and twins. I remember a wheelchair user wanted to get on at a bus stop. It was pouring by with rain. I got off to let him on!

YANBU. Wheelchair users clearly have priority over buggies and for good reasons. Parents should always be prepared to fold their buggies.

Bus drivers should wait to allow parents to fold their buggies. The bus should remain stationary until the buggy is folded and the children are safely seated. It's unsafe to have small children flying all over the bus. A little more patience is needed on their side. I've seen a mum lose her balance trying to fold her buggy with her baby rolling around on the floor as the bus swung round a corner, which is obviously dangerous.

God. Life is hard enough already for wheelchair users; she was being U and selfish.

It is quite hard with baby twins if you're a single parent as you can't actually fold the buggy and take the babies and sit down!

Looking at the booklet Accessible travel in London produced by TfL it is VERY firm - section 4 - that the wheelchair has priority. As a passenger, if I see a wheelchair waiting at the stop, I start softening up the buggy user - the drivers do have a voice over and a message they can use on the destination indicator saying people must move for a wheelchair.BE BRAVE! The French have a super message on their disabled space to the effect - take my space have my disability...also suggest speak to head teacher and ask for an assembly obn being thoughtful to people with disabilities - if her children are saying mummy wheelchair goes first (one can but hope)

Until that happens the able bodied entitled will treat bus spaces, car spaces and disabled loo as items there for their own extended convenience.
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@C8H10N4O2
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Haven't caught up on the theseof these comments yet sorry, but just wanted to clarify not to you personally, but in general that not all of these places are ust for those that a4e non able bodied
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Pushchair woman was out of order as wheelchairs should of course always take priority, however I do also feel for mums of young kids of that age, its hard work, and its great they're using public transport rather than driving everywhere

When I worked in sittingbourne you had absolutely no hope of getting a cab 2 hours either side of school times. They we all commanderred by the council for school runs.

Does the LA not have a fund for taxi's op?

When I did an A-level at a different 6th form to mine they put on a taxi for that, despite me having a free bus pass.

Though budgets are not what they were.

You are not wrong

But; you need to kick this up a gear. One day; your wheelchair using daughter will be an adult; and unfortunately will face many barriers. She lives in a city where most of the underground is not available to her. If my; (and other wheelchair using women's) experiences are anything to go by; she will face intrusive and rude questions about her disability; general health and stupid comments about her mobility equipment (why don't you have handles so I can push you? Why don't you have an electric wheelchair, why don't you have a team of huskies to pull you along... )

And that's without the grabbing and invading personal space as 'help'; broad condensing; inquiry in employment etc...

Everything you do now; she sees; and it will get her a framework for the future- how to manage in an accessible world. It's not even necessarily about empowering her to stand up for her rights (it's exhausting); its just teaching her that it is not acceptable for her to be treated in certain ways.

Every time that you are denied access to a bus; photograph the back of the bus and fill out the 'contact us' section on the TFL website. When you have more than 3 photos email the mayors office.

You've both been put in a ludicrous situation where the driver is refusing to allow you on because it is easier for them not to have a conversation with a person who does not have priority access to that space. You shouldn't be the one having to ask her to move. Your daughter should definitely not be repositioned at the whim of some random person.

It seems a madness that your son is a wheelchair user but is only low mobility. Has he always been low mobility? My son gets low mobility and he's not a wheelchair user. That's pretty awful for you

I think you should write to both your MP and the *Mayor about your difficulty in accessing the wheelchair space and who has priority and what instructions the drivers have in this situation. There is a valid argument for w/c users like your dd having a taxi service as without transport they're unable to access school. If you get a letter from the Mayor confirming your priority take it with you. As others have said you need to just be firm.

*I think that Sadiq Khan is responsible for TFL.