Page 15 | AIBU not to explain why a 7yr old can't go in the gents?

FlyingPi · 2023-01-25T23:42:13+00:00

I'm sure this has been discussed before. When we're out and my boy needs the toilet, I make him come into the Ladies with me. Problem is, he's starting to complain about it and wants to go in the Gents on his own. I have let him do this in one particular place where there's never anyone about, so I knew he wouldn't encounter anyone at the urinals. I'm always honest with him but I don't quite know how to explain why I'm not letting him do this anywhere else, like at the swimming pool/gym toilets. He knows about the Pants rules and personal space and consent but I don't exactly want to spell out what I'm worried about. What do you tell your kids?

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 12:14

ZeroFuchsGiven · 26/01/2023 12:11

What on earth are you talking about, it is not normal for an 8 year old to be scared to go into a toilet of there own sex. The only reason being is if someone has made them scared. Parents putting their Anxiousness onto their kids.

Point proven upthread where a poster told their child that they had to go in the ladies because ' some men like to look at other people's willies and he was horrified'.

So yeah it is learnt behaviour.

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If your mum constantly tells you how scary public toilets are who would you not be scared of public toilets?

ZeroFuchsGiven · 26/01/2023 12:15

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 12:12

@Cormakorma Totally not true. Some of the worst men have way over protective mothers who minimise and excuse all their bad behaviour.

I completely agree!

neverknowinglyunreasonable · 26/01/2023 12:16

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 12:08

I was afraid people would call the police or Social Services if I closed the cubicle door. I did not think my baby was in any danger at all.

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"Hello, police please. Yes hello. I have found an abandoned baby in a pram. Barely a few months old....... Yes, I'm here with them....... They're just sleeping........ Yes of course...... I found them in a toilet...... No, the pram was just inside the ladies toilet. Just outside a cubicle....... Yes........ Yes. You're right. I suppose the mother could be having a wee...... Let me check. Hello, is this your baby? HELLO!? IS THIS YOUR BABY? WHAT'S THAT? HAVING A WEE. OK. I SEE. Hello officer. Yes their mum was just having a wee. Oh dear the baby got woken up with all that shouting. She's just come out now and is washing her hands. Yes, sorry for wasting your time. Ok. Bye. Wait before I go there's a boy in here who looks about 8. Could you sent a SWAT team? Ok. No problem. Bye."

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 12:16

Oigetoffmylawn · 26/01/2023 12:13

Primary school trips are rarely to busy public places like shopping centres. They tend to be to places equipt for large school groups (such as museums) and mid week when fewer members of the public are present.

School trips I've attended with nursery and reception age children (3,4,5) they've all gone to the ladies as many still need assistance and a male staff member hasn't been available.

For older school trips (years 1-6) a male staff member has attended and accompanied the boys to the men's toilets. On the one occasion a male staff member was not available (our school only has 1) the children were sent in groups of 4, and a female staff member stood outside.

So no children are in any toilets alone.

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I have taken school kids to theme parks. The boys go in the toilets as a group without a staff member. They are absolutely fine.
Of course you don't send nursery school aged children alone to the toilet.

OutForBreakfast · 26/01/2023 12:18

@neverknowinglyunreasonable No need to be ridiculous. What I was worried about was someone phoning the police or Social Services saying a mum was in the toilet cubicle having a wee and had left her baby in the pram outside. And the baby could be snatched by the predators hanging around public toilets waiting for a baby or child to snatch. Look at how over the top some of the views are on this thread. Many of them would ring if they saw a mum in a locoed cubicle with a pram and a baby outside.

Original poster

FlyingPi · 26/01/2023 12:19

Elsiebear90 · 26/01/2023 11:21

If she won’t let him go into the men’s toilets she’s hardly likely to let him go into the men’s changing rooms either. I think it’s highly unlikely that every changing room he’s been to has only had cubicles.

You’ve still not explained why a male child shouldn’t see men using a urinal.

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Of course I don't think he should be seeing random naked adult women either. The swimming pool we go to has individual cubicles for everyone so this never arises. Not sure where you're going.

The issue isn't with seeing it in a safe context like a book or lesson about the human body, it's with him on his own in a situation where adult men are allowed to get their penises out and therefore an opportunity for any creeps. When his dad's with him obviously they go in the Gents as he's there to protect him if needed.

Yes I know that the statistics say children are more likely to be abused at home but I am not primarily worried about rape or sexual abuse in these cases but about "lesser" but upsetting situations like flashers or inappropriate comments or brief touching. I am willing to bet there are not many statistics about the prevalence of this, but every woman I know experienced this in childhood, I think it's likely quite a few men did too.

I also - to respond to someone else - never said anything about the age of 8, I said that eventually he'll refuse to go in the Ladies and I hope that this is at a time when he is able to handle upsetting/difficult situations if necessary, not as a tiny wee 7 year old.

And speaking of that, the idea that my lad is making any grown women uncomfortable in the Ladies is just silly. Or even small girls, since we all have cubicles there and I'm always with him.

I would like to genuinely thank those who have posted sympathetic suggestions. But given the length of this thread, it has mostly been debate and that's not what I asked, I'm happy with my choice, just wanted ideas for how to explain it so he understands my decision, without frightening him. I suppose I should have known that on Mumsnet mentioning public toilets would be an invitation for the people obsessed with debating trans issues to chime in, way to live up to this site's reputation. It's really boring though that everything always comes back to this here.

OP posts:

Ohshitx · 26/01/2023 12:22

fUNNYfACE36 · 26/01/2023 00:07

I challenge boys who look more than about 7 using the ladies.

You challenge children using the toilet?

Seriously?

Elsiebear90 · 26/01/2023 12:24

FlyingPi · 26/01/2023 12:19

Of course I don't think he should be seeing random naked adult women either. The swimming pool we go to has individual cubicles for everyone so this never arises. Not sure where you're going.

The issue isn't with seeing it in a safe context like a book or lesson about the human body, it's with him on his own in a situation where adult men are allowed to get their penises out and therefore an opportunity for any creeps. When his dad's with him obviously they go in the Gents as he's there to protect him if needed.

Yes I know that the statistics say children are more likely to be abused at home but I am not primarily worried about rape or sexual abuse in these cases but about "lesser" but upsetting situations like flashers or inappropriate comments or brief touching. I am willing to bet there are not many statistics about the prevalence of this, but every woman I know experienced this in childhood, I think it's likely quite a few men did too.

I also - to respond to someone else - never said anything about the age of 8, I said that eventually he'll refuse to go in the Ladies and I hope that this is at a time when he is able to handle upsetting/difficult situations if necessary, not as a tiny wee 7 year old.

And speaking of that, the idea that my lad is making any grown women uncomfortable in the Ladies is just silly. Or even small girls, since we all have cubicles there and I'm always with him.

I would like to genuinely thank those who have posted sympathetic suggestions. But given the length of this thread, it has mostly been debate and that's not what I asked, I'm happy with my choice, just wanted ideas for how to explain it so he understands my decision, without frightening him. I suppose I should have known that on Mumsnet mentioning public toilets would be an invitation for the people obsessed with debating trans issues to chime in, way to live up to this site's reputation. It's really boring though that everything always comes back to this here.

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That’s not what you said though, in your second post you said “but the idea of him seeing grown men using urinals, or - even if it's a small chance - someone dodgy approaching him, worries me.”.

The idea of him seeing grown men using urinals worries you.

LittlemissMama67 · 26/01/2023 12:25

My son is 7 coming up for 8 and he dosnt see me naked anymore, and I'm trying to get him accustomed to using the shower by himself because very soon I'd like him to shower himself so I don't need to see him naked either. Not because I think it's weird but just because there comes a point where he's going to want to do it himself and by 8 he is capable

WindscreenWipe · 26/01/2023 12:28

Cormakorma · 26/01/2023 12:06

Do not challenge the mother. Fuck off and don't make drama where none exists. Do you think an 8 year old with his mother is going to be perving over you or something? It's not sexual, he just needs a bloody poo.

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If you read the actual thread you’ll see I was actually responding to someone challenging a child for being dragged into a women’s bathroom… 🙄

ZeroFuchsGiven · 26/01/2023 12:29

Yes I know that the statistics say children are more likely to be abused at home but I am not primarily worried about rape or sexual abuse in these cases but about "lesser" but upsetting situations like flashers or inappropriate comments or brief touching. I am willing to bet there are not many statistics about the prevalence of this, but every woman I know experienced this in childhood, I think it's likely quite a few men did too

Every woman you know experienced flashers, inapproriate comments or breif touching from strangers in public toilets in their childhood?? Where the hell did you grow up?

Viviennemary · 26/01/2023 12:33

If you are not comfortable with him using the gents take him in the ladies. What is this about. All those pearl clutchers fussing about a child over 7 in the ladies. The ladies cubicles are all closed.

daysleepers · 26/01/2023 12:40

fUNNYfACE36 · 26/01/2023 00:07

I challenge boys who look more than about 7 using the ladies.

Really?! This is out of order, you would challenge a child on this seriously!

I find this ridiculous especially in this day and age when trans people are using ladies loos and changing rooms but do not get challenged!

CellophaneFlower · 26/01/2023 12:42

Honestly these threads always go the same way, with right on posters casting scorn over parents mollycoddling their children.

I was recently told on here my 6 year old had issues as I said if he woke up and I wasn't in the house he'd panic. Apparently that was due to my own anxiety that I'd passed onto him.

Chooksnroses · 26/01/2023 12:44

fUNNYfACE36 · 26/01/2023 00:07

I challenge boys who look more than about 7 using the ladies.

Oh for goodness sake! What is a little boy going to do to you??

JanusTheFirst · 26/01/2023 12:52

Allowing boys in the ladies' loos is telling little girls that their feelings that they shouldn't be there aren't important. Little girls don't want boys in their spaces after the age of 7.

There is no need for it. The girls' feelings matter.

Original poster

FlyingPi · 26/01/2023 12:55

ZeroFuchsGiven · 26/01/2023 12:29

Yes I know that the statistics say children are more likely to be abused at home but I am not primarily worried about rape or sexual abuse in these cases but about "lesser" but upsetting situations like flashers or inappropriate comments or brief touching. I am willing to bet there are not many statistics about the prevalence of this, but every woman I know experienced this in childhood, I think it's likely quite a few men did too

Every woman you know experienced flashers, inapproriate comments or breif touching from strangers in public toilets in their childhood?? Where the hell did you grow up?

In Britain. Haven't you noticed this is a big problem? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10588191/Flashing-incidents-soar-40-new-data-reveals-200-creepy-incidents-week.html (Sorry to link to Daily Mail, first article I found googling)
I didn't say "in public toilets" did I? But my seven-year-old would not be going anywhere else by himself, would he?

"That’s not what you said though, in your second post you said “but the idea of him seeing grown men using urinals, or - even if it's a small chance - someone dodgy approaching him, worries me.”.
The idea of him seeing grown men using urinals worries you."
Yes, when he's on his own in public toilets. Not sure why you're so invested in the idea that a seven year old needs to see this.

Here's a funny thing, or not: I just mentioned that I'd posted this thread to my husband, I hadn't bothered to tell him about our son wanting to go in the Gents at the leisure centre yesterday. He actually immediately said he'd seen someone wanking in that exact same location when he was a child! I had no idea that this had happened.

OP posts:

Elsiebear90 · 26/01/2023 13:00

FlyingPi · 26/01/2023 12:55

In Britain. Haven't you noticed this is a big problem? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10588191/Flashing-incidents-soar-40-new-data-reveals-200-creepy-incidents-week.html (Sorry to link to Daily Mail, first article I found googling)
I didn't say "in public toilets" did I? But my seven-year-old would not be going anywhere else by himself, would he?

"That’s not what you said though, in your second post you said “but the idea of him seeing grown men using urinals, or - even if it's a small chance - someone dodgy approaching him, worries me.”.
The idea of him seeing grown men using urinals worries you."
Yes, when he's on his own in public toilets. Not sure why you're so invested in the idea that a seven year old needs to see this.

Here's a funny thing, or not: I just mentioned that I'd posted this thread to my husband, I hadn't bothered to tell him about our son wanting to go in the Gents at the leisure centre yesterday. He actually immediately said he'd seen someone wanking in that exact same location when he was a child! I had no idea that this had happened.

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I’m not invested in the idea that a boy needs to see men using urinals I’m wondering why it’s such a big issue to you?

Easternext · 26/01/2023 13:10

Charliecatpaws · 26/01/2023 00:00

Should a 7 year old girl go into a gents toilet?

Why would she need to?

Original poster

FlyingPi · 26/01/2023 13:10

Well, I don't really know how to explain it any further if you don't get it Elsiebear. Because while the vast majority of men are just using the urinals to have a wee, there are occasionally creeps and perverts who might do something inappropriate if there's a child next to them on his own. Anything to do with protecting a small child is obviously going to be a big issue.

OP posts:

Mammyloveswine · 26/01/2023 13:11

My just turned 7 year old is autistic and struggles with personal boundaries so he absolutely will not be using the gents on his own yet! He is overly affectionate and loves to give hugs so I would not be safeguarding him if I just let him use the mens loos on his own knowing his is vulnerable!

Perfect28 · 26/01/2023 13:15

Because young girls go out with their dads?

BigMadAdrian · 26/01/2023 13:16

My youngest is 11 and I still send dh or his older brother (14) in with him.

ZeroFuchsGiven · 26/01/2023 13:17

But you are specifically talking about public loos so of course I got that from your comment!

I still dont believe every woman you know has been sexually assualted as a child in public in some form or another and I speak as an abuse victim myself.

SilentNightDancer · 26/01/2023 13:18

Interesting. This thread was originally about 7-year-olds using the women's toilets.

Now several posters have gone down the 'I can't believe you're worried about an 8-year-old' route. So the hypothetical 'just turned 7' year old has become an 8- (nearly 9?) year old.

Now someone else has said that 10-year-olds need accompanying.

This is just stupid. 7 and 8 year old boys were not in the ladies toilets when I was a child - in fact, I don't think any boy over about the age of 4 was in there.