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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Graduate DD not qualifying for job seekers. The buck stops with us

529 replies

drivinmecrazy · 25/01/2023 14:21

DD1 graduated this summer and moved home to us in October.
Since then she's been applying for entry level jobs in publishing and copywriting in London.
We live in a rural town with limited employment opportunities, for which we feel really guilty for, but that's another story.
We agreed to give her until the new year to focus fully on finding the ideal position before we expected her to apply for local jobs which would tide her over.
Since then she's applied for job seekers allowance. Found out today she does not qualify because doesn't have enough NI contributions.
She's certainly not work shy, she supported herself largely through uni and spent time from graduation until she me of September working full time at her uni job so was paying NI and tax.
Now she's home it falls to us to support her. She has dwindling savings so has enough for her socialising and we obviously don't charge her for board and lodgings.
But at 22yo surely she should be treated by the state as independent.
What if we didn't have the means to support her at home?
TBH I was hoping she'd qualify for the £200 odd per month for job seekers so she might be able to contribute £20 a week to the household, which would obviously not come close to what she is 'costing' us , but might give her some self worth.
We are fortunate we can accommodate her but it's a hefty weight for us to carry with the cost of living etc.

We have never claimed anything as a family but surely as an independent 22yo woman she should have some autonomy.

I realise probably shouldn't have put this in aibu cos I know I am, but where do our parental responsibilities stop?

She has obviously started applying for local jobs in what she has experience of and her cv is fortunately full of work experience so shouldn't take long.

But I guess my real AIBU is what would happen if we could not or would not cover her living costs

OP posts:
opencheese · 26/01/2023 18:21

She doesn't qualify because she's able to work and there's tonnes of jobs available to her

She needs to get out there and work. Not sponge off the state

When i was a graduate, I worked in a call centre until I found my feet

laylababe5 · 26/01/2023 18:25

drivinmecrazy · 25/01/2023 14:30

That's interesting. She said that she had checked UC and she thinks she'd be entitled to 46 pence or something ridiculous.

Feel awful encouraging her to apply in the first place.

No need to feel guilty. I'm sure at 22 she'd be grateful to have some income herself and not be depending on her parents to support her. Benefits are there to support the people who need it, and she does.

opencheese · 26/01/2023 18:25

It's not nasty. Its true

Just cos she has a degree and an interest in publishing, she still needs to earn her way

When did she finish uni? Most universities end in May/June. Its now 8-9 months later. What's she been doing all this time?

First thing I'd ask as an interviewer.... what have you been doing since finishing uni

GoodChat · 26/01/2023 18:25

No she doesn't @laylababe5. She's being really selective about jobs. She doesn't need money from the state - she needs to be flexible.

Outfor150 · 26/01/2023 18:31

opencheese · 26/01/2023 18:21

She doesn't qualify because she's able to work and there's tonnes of jobs available to her

She needs to get out there and work. Not sponge off the state

When i was a graduate, I worked in a call centre until I found my feet

No, that’s not the reason she doesn’t qualify. Where did you get that from?

Ktwithay · 26/01/2023 18:31

It is hard for graduates when they come out of Uni with “endless possibilities” but no idea how to get where they want to be, and torn between different expectations from family/society etc.

I employ graduates into reasonably well paid jobs, and would say the biggest thing she needs to work on is soft skills. The longer she’s out of work the more people interviewing her etc will be on a pedestal in her eyes, she will be less likely to engage and interview successfully and her confidence will take a dive… etc etc.

I interview a lot of very intelligent young people who cannot engage, or hold conversation in an interview environment. This is normally after having done an initial phone introduction too.

Please OP, support her and keep your worries away from her. Do not get her applying for UC, all being well if her confidence stays high she will be able to earn an income quickly.

Look at freelancing, she can advertise locally for proofreading, copywriting for local businesses at “pocket money” rates to build a portfolio and also get some exposure to talking to companies about their needs. Get her into a public facing role part time, whether that be a coffee shop or whatever, so she loses the “fear” of presenting herself to people more senior than herself that we all secretly harbour! The main thing she now needs to learn is how to sell herself. That will put her in a superb position for any future career, whether it be applying for jobs, freelance projects, or progression once she’s in a job.

Encourage her to think out the box. If you can’t help her with that, find someone who can mentor her and support her.

Outfor150 · 26/01/2023 18:35

GoodChat · 26/01/2023 18:17

@Outfor150 ok she's not too lazy to get a job but she's too precious to get a job that's not exactly what she wants.

She’s worked throughout her degree and clearly must have savings. She could give some of her savings for her board. It doesn’t follow that she is lazy.

turnipash · 26/01/2023 18:39

@Ktwithay

That's very good advice. Every job is a stepping stone and provides new skills and experiences ( something to discuss at interview)

Rather than claim UC, and wait for the dream job, she ought to refocus on finding something more attainable in the short term. She needn't give up on publishing but can she find customer facing/admin or hospitality work in the meantime? That will look better on her CV than merely "job hunting"

Publishing involves client management, time
Management, project coordination and admin skills

Survey99 · 26/01/2023 18:39

But at 22yo surely she should be treated by the state as independent.
What if we didn't have the means to support her at home?

She wouldn't have made the choices she did if she had to be independent. Should we all be able to choose to have a 3 month holiday and expect the tax payer to pick up the tab for our choices?

If she had started looking in October for any job this would not be a problem, the expectation and entitlement the tax payer should pick up the tab for the lax attitude you are teaching your dd, a very able adult very capable of providing for herself, towards job hunting is astounding.

Forgooodnesssakenow · 26/01/2023 18:39

My money is on her not applying because she's embarrassed and hoping you don't chase it up.

If she'd noone to look after she'd do what my sister did when she graduated English, get a job on min wage in a coffee shop, rise the ranks, manage a restaurant within a year, move into hotel management, undergo HR training in her spare time, move abroad for experience and come back to a good job as a HR manager, it took 10 years but she's now on a higher salary than I am as a healthcare professional. It takes dedication, flexibility, willingness to do any job for any pay and a bit of luck. Wed no safety net so we'd to just occasionally starve, sofa surf etc. That's what you do.

My money is she knows she has a safety net, she's not applied. Sit with her to fill in the application. My bil is an entitled sod and did this to mil, unfortunately for him I was raised on benefits and knew the system or he'd still be living off her on her spare room a decade later.

Ktwithay · 26/01/2023 18:40

Just read this after my reply. This all sounds amazing, get her to get herself out there, get onto LinkedIn, advertise herself as a freelancer. Having “an employer” isn’t necessarily the best way to go if you are of the more creative type. Good luck to her 😊

vaccinistatotebagchicbarista · 26/01/2023 18:44

I’ve been where she is and it’s such an awful feeling. I remember I would cry to my parents with guilt at not being able to contribute financially. Very similar situation with living in a small rural town too, plus I didn’t drive at the time! Just remember all it takes is that one application to turn it all around!

I was able to claim UC though. As far as I recall I was able to apply as an individual in my own right, and as long as you have less than £6k in savings you’re eligible for an okay amount - I would get about £340 a month.

Ktwithay · 26/01/2023 18:46

I agree with your comments on climbing the ladder, but I would say as the OPs DD isn’t in a position to “have” to get just any job, she is in a very fortunate position to be able to build skill sets and not end up in a job she has fallen into just because. Sitting with them whilst they apply for a job isn’t not creating the attitude young people need to have to survive these days!

I “fell” into a career, I do love it and am very successful, but if I had my time again I’d of worked on the skills that made me successful initially instead of only realising them after 10years in an industry, and therefore given myself a bigger chance of being successful earlier 😁

TheAllButterBiscuit · 26/01/2023 18:51

Has she considered training as a teacher? With a good degree she should find it fairly easy to get a place on a PGCE. From there it’s a year’s training before becoming an NQT on a decent salary.

This is the path I took as I wanted to be a teacher, but a number of friends went down this avenue as they wanted to pursue other careers later on. Once you have a PGCE, you’ll always be able to find a job, be it full-time teacher, part-time or supply work. I have friends who started as teachers, and used the holidays to build experience in their preferred fields… one is an author, another works with horses, another develops digital education resources. All careers they couldn’t have gone straight into from uni for financial reasons, but were secure in by the time they hit 30. And if they ever need more money, the fall-back on supply work is always there.

If she’s interested, encourage her to get work experience in a local school before applying.

Featherhands · 26/01/2023 18:51

Have you checked your pms @drivinmecrazy

Lovely13 · 26/01/2023 18:55

Son got universal credit when he was trying to find a job. It was surprisingly easy to claim.Didn’t have to go into their office, all done online. But was during lockdown, so may be different now.

AIBUYESYES · 26/01/2023 18:57

Look at freelancing, she can advertise locally for proofreading, copywriting for local businesses at “pocket money” rates to build a portfolio and also get some exposure to talking to companies about their needs.

@Ktwithay I agree with a lot of your advice but not this. Professional qualifications are needed to be a proof reader (and ideally belonging to their association) if someone is going to bid for freelance work. An English degree is not enough.

Ditto copywriting.

I have friends doing these jobs and they find it hard enough as mature, experienced writers to get freelance work. One friend with a hugely successful portfolio still struggles to get freelance work with local businesses.

It's just not being realistic to expect a new grad to walk into proof reading or copywriting. AND more to the point, many people even with an English degree do not have good enough grammar/ punctuation skills to proof read.

Bekstar · 26/01/2023 18:58

I would ask citizens advise for a benefit assessment they'll advise what she is entitled too it may be she put in for the newer type of JSA as opposed to UC which has a JSA income related side. If she has savings they will be taken into account though and will have an impact on what they will pay her. New jsa is based on contributions but your still entitled without contributions it would just become income based because of lack of contributions. She also needs to make it clear you can't support her and aren't willing too because as long as your saying you will they won't give her anything. She doesn't want to sit and say she is a dependant of yours at all. But instead advise that she is laying board of whatever per week and that as she waits for money she is mounting up debt to yourself.

RaininSummer · 26/01/2023 19:11

Face to face to for UC now as it's business as usual 'after Covid' although you start the claim off online.

Pliudev · 26/01/2023 19:29

Really sorry to have to say this, but the work your DD is setting her sights on is almost impossible to find. Would she consider further qualifications? An MA in Journalism or a PGCE? Would she consider translation, using the Spanish part of her degree? Or a TEFL course followed by a teaching job in a Spanish speaking country? These options may not be her first choice but might lead to a career she hasn't previously thought of. Maybe a local job to tide her over will give her time to consider what is, realistically, available to her.

Ktwithay · 26/01/2023 19:53

Ah I will be honest copywriting and proofreading are not my areas of expertise so I am happy to be corrected ☺️ DH is a web designer and started from scratch like this, and I know there were lots of “projects” on the site he used to find work, but I didn’t delve into them so remain ignorant!

NovaNomen · 26/01/2023 20:07

I agree with *Ktwithay, though not necessarily for the same reasons (though theirs and mine are not mutually exclusive).
If your daughter wants to be an editor, it's essential that they have good 'soft' skills - interpersonal, negotiating, diplomatic. Anything that she can do to show how she's been developing these will help her. Ditto anything to do with organisational skills. They are crucial.

An editor does not just spend time discussing the finer points of a manuscript with a literary author. (OK, that's a caricature, but the point is valid). As an editor, she'd be at the centre of quite a complex web of important arrangements and delicate feelings. A great many people will rely on her to make things happen on budget and - vitally, vitally important - according to schedule. She'll almost certainly at some stage have to deal with an author who - just for instance - might have fallen down stairs and broken a leg or be suffering from severe pregnancy sickness and who is - for valid reasons, from their point of view - unable to deliver the text on time. And a few - just a few (because unless they ate brilliant they don't get asked back that often) very talented writers and illustrators just seem totally incapable of sticking to deadlines.....

At the same time, the production department will be chasing the manuscript, because the overseas print and shipping deals they have in place - and which might have been booked well before the author had even signed the contract - can't easily be changed. Ditto the shipping and warehousing. At the same time, the designer and illustrator and maybe copy editor and proof-reader - all freelancers - will have 'booked in' in advance a timeslot for their work on the project. If they don't work then because the manuscript is delayed they won't earn and will be annoyed; and they will probably have other important work that they've arranged to be done further down the line, so that an editor asking them to fit in a delayed project will cause them stress at the best and might often find it impossible.

All this will be compounded by around 10% if an author's agent gets involved, and by around a million percent if TV or film production companies ditto. (In my experience, the bigger and better the company the less fuss; the ones that cause the most bother are minor TV companies with z list celebrities - but I digress.)

There will also be complaints to the editor from the sales and publicity people if any part of a schedule is disrupted.. At least 25% of most publishing companies' sales happen in just the few weeks before Christmas. If an editor can't get their author/illustrator/designer/photographer and other freelancers organised to get the 'product' on the shelves by that time, then the sales and publicity people will be pretty cross. So will their retailer 'customers' - who will have demanded quite hefty sums, in advance, from publishers to put chosen titles on their 'best seller' shelves. if those books don't appear, the publishing company makes a big loss.

In my experience, a good editor is someone who combines a feeling for words with really good personal and negotiating skills AND who also has the ability to (a) be pretty tough and (b) be clever, creative and flexible and really good at problem-solving when it comes to matters organisational.

Remember, publisers might love books (most genuinely do) but a vanishing few of them are NOT also in the business to make money. They need cash flow to finance new projects; a few of those can be for 'merit' (however defined) but the majority simply have to make money, in order to finance the next round of books.

Also, as others have said, publishing wages are very, very low. Just compare them with civil service or even teaching for the same experience and responsibility. And, unlike those, there is absolutely no standardised programme of promotion and advancement. An editor is as good as their most recent projects, and is paid accordingly.

NovaNomen · 26/01/2023 20:11

Please excuse numerous typos. Am trying to cook supper at the same time.

Shudahaddogs · 26/01/2023 20:13

drivinmecrazy · 25/01/2023 14:21

DD1 graduated this summer and moved home to us in October.
Since then she's been applying for entry level jobs in publishing and copywriting in London.
We live in a rural town with limited employment opportunities, for which we feel really guilty for, but that's another story.
We agreed to give her until the new year to focus fully on finding the ideal position before we expected her to apply for local jobs which would tide her over.
Since then she's applied for job seekers allowance. Found out today she does not qualify because doesn't have enough NI contributions.
She's certainly not work shy, she supported herself largely through uni and spent time from graduation until she me of September working full time at her uni job so was paying NI and tax.
Now she's home it falls to us to support her. She has dwindling savings so has enough for her socialising and we obviously don't charge her for board and lodgings.
But at 22yo surely she should be treated by the state as independent.
What if we didn't have the means to support her at home?
TBH I was hoping she'd qualify for the £200 odd per month for job seekers so she might be able to contribute £20 a week to the household, which would obviously not come close to what she is 'costing' us , but might give her some self worth.
We are fortunate we can accommodate her but it's a hefty weight for us to carry with the cost of living etc.

We have never claimed anything as a family but surely as an independent 22yo woman she should have some autonomy.

I realise probably shouldn't have put this in aibu cos I know I am, but where do our parental responsibilities stop?

She has obviously started applying for local jobs in what she has experience of and her cv is fortunately full of work experience so shouldn't take long.

But I guess my real AIBU is what would happen if we could not or would not cover her living costs

Yeah that's why I want my daughters to get a job..not an education when they leave school. Any training will be paid for employer. We really must move away from staying at home till your 45 because of student debt.

Lifethroughlenses · 26/01/2023 20:24

Erm. Apply for dream jobs whilst doing a local job to earn cash. That’s what most of us have done for their entire career. I’m not sure why taxpayers should pay to support people to have more time to work on their CV.