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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

3 year old member of Mensa.

268 replies

Toddlerteaplease · 23/01/2023 17:38

Article in todays Times, (don't know how to link)
AIBU to think this is ridiculous, let him be a toddler, nurture his interests of course. But this is OTT, and asking for trouble. Apparently he wants to go to university and be a doctor. Confused

OP posts:
Phos · 25/01/2023 11:26

DIYandEatCake · 24/01/2023 15:09

People are weird about intellect. If a 3 year old showed exceptional footballing ability, totally loved football and was accepted into Man Utd’s youth training squad or whatever, I don’t think there would be clamours of ‘just let him be a toddler!’ or suggesting he spent more time playing with playdough. Or a 3 year old who could sing and dance exceptionally well, and spent their Saturdays at theatre school, most people would just be impressed.But cleverness and intellectual curiosity aren’t celebrated in the same way. Going to the media is a questionable decision but he sounds amazing.

I think there would be the same concerns. There is a child in my daughter’s class, I don’t know how good she is but I do know she spends all of every Saturday at stage school, most Sundays in competitions or pageants and has other dance/gymnastics classes after school every single day. I’ve also seen her crying not wanting to go to school and being upset because she wanted to join her friends playing in the park after school. It can just be too much for them.

Conkersinautumn · 25/01/2023 11:30

Mensa is no place for the extraordinary anyway, tbh mensa is probably just on this for some publicity as elitism on the basis of logic tests is only of interest to those who rate logic tests. I'm sure given some actual opportunities as he grows he will go on to hopefully an interesting field for him, or indeed whatever he loves. Mensa might hang onto his tail while the papers are interested but they are just being exploitative.

garlictwist · 25/01/2023 11:47

It's very early to be classed as a genius, he might just be a quick learner and time will tell. But this sentence did make me laugh "he even got so excited over fractions one time that he gave himself a nosebleed". Grin

Ladyfird · 25/01/2023 11:59

Lots of judgements here about the parents, what a surprise- we know how supportive mumsnet is even if we don't know most of the facts.

SockSnout · 25/01/2023 12:58

Cockerdileteeth · 24/01/2023 19:53

@Thereisnolight but why leave them under-challenged and unsupported until they became depressed or anxious, and disengaged, or acting out behaviourally, or unable to handle failure, and then treat those mental health symptoms? Why not act to prevent those MH issues in the first place?

Particularly if you're willing for those children with high IQs plus an SpLD or other disability to still receive support. Not sure if you're aware but right now, they tend not to get support, because they often still manage to at least meet Age Related Expectations, so they're not a priority. Also not sure if you're aware but proper support for DME children requires supporting their difficulties through their strengths ie the whole child, so it should entail appropriate support for the learning needs that come with the high IQ side of things, not just support for the disability.

These don't have to be costly interventions. Understanding, awareness and empathy go a long way, with a bit flexibility in the curriculum to do some self-directed learning rather than just jump through hoops. It needn't cost a fortune.

💯👏👏👏Brilliant post.

Thereisnolight · 25/01/2023 15:28

Is there evidence that gifted children who do receive school support go on to achieve to their potential? And how is this measured? Do they need lifelong support to function well? And if so, if they need constant support from ordinary people in order to reach their potential or even live a normal life, can they truly be described as gifted?

Thereisnolight · 25/01/2023 15:29

Because imo “gifted”, amongst other things, includes being a self-starter with lots of initiative and creative solutions. But perhaps my definition is wrong.

Cockerdileteeth · 25/01/2023 17:10

Thereisnolight · 25/01/2023 15:29

Because imo “gifted”, amongst other things, includes being a self-starter with lots of initiative and creative solutions. But perhaps my definition is wrong.

IQ measures things like innate problem-solving ability, processing speed, and ability to retain and manipulate information in working memory. (I don't like the term "gifted" personally, and there's a lot of baggage around it - high learning potential or exceptionally able are alternatives.)

So yes, creative thinking and curiosity and (depending on personality) initiative and being a self starter are in the mix.

These are all fine qualities, for a toddler starting to explore the world, or an adult in the workplace. But please consider how that plays out in a school classroom for HLP kids.

When your numerate 5 year old says "no thank you" to the activity using counters to work out 1 more or less than, for numbers up to 10, and - being as you say a self-starter with lots of initiative and creative solutions - quietly fecks off to find himself something more useful and interesting to get on with, we typically call that being naughty, and not following instructions, and having poor listening skills. We also call it a safeguarding incident if the little s**t managed to hop the fence in the process of going self-employed... So, going forward, do we just bring the behaviour policy to bear and put him On The Cloud and keep him in at playtime until he becomes more compliant, perhaps with some ELSA support for those lagging listening skills....or do we also afford (appropriate) outlets for self-led learning and for his creativity and initiative, and differentiate the maths work for him (ie support for his HLP needs - which you say he shouldn't need?).

Rinse and repeat the former approach, changing the factual matrix according to age, through the school years, and depending on personality and circumstances the outcomes may be suboptimal. I don't have stats to hand but anecdotally, I know of a child who became the class clown and channelled their many talents into disruption instead of their learning; who turned things in on themselves, became depressed and disengaged and flunked GCSEs; one who truanted, had multiple exclusions and ended up in a pupil referral unit; one who sadly fell into addiction and suicide. This population has been shown to be over represented in the teenage suicide statistics and the youth offending rates.

Less dramatically, it's very very common for these children not to learn useful study skills or how to fail because they're never challenged, and to be perfectionists used to high marks, and so to have a catastrophic mental health crisis/breakdown when they finally encounter stretching work, whether that's in year 11 or at A level or uni or in the workplace.

I don't think it's fair to look at these outcomes and say, well they weren't really gifted then or they'd have been self-starters and done better for themselves

As adults, these children will have agency to choose their own work and careers, to pursue their interests and use their abilities as they wish to, free of the constraints of the school timetable and the National Curriculum. And they will no longer be grappling with asynchronous development, with cognitive abilities that are beyond their physical and emotional ages and the daily challenges that creates, and will be more comfortable in their own skins. So no, of course they don't need "lifelong support to function" and live happy and fulfilled adult lives, if they make it there well-rounded and resilient. But they deserve and need our understanding and appropriate help through the school years in order to get to that point. Sadly, many don't get that.

SockSnout · 25/01/2023 17:17

@Cockerdileteeth completely gets it. I am guessing she is a parent to a child with exception learning potential, as am I. It is a.... difficult journey.

Jellycats4life · 25/01/2023 17:30

Particularly if you're willing for those children with high IQs plus an SpLD or other disability to still receive support. Not sure if you're aware but right now, they tend not to get support, because they often still manage to at least meet Age Related Expectations, so they're not a priority.

This is so true @Cockerdileteeth

My DME autistic boy (advanced in maths) doesn’t get support for anything. He masks all day and is really anxious. Hates the playground etc. His needs go totally unrecognised because he isn’t melting down in class and meets academic targets. Never mind the fact he could exceed them, given the chance. I could talk to school until I’m blue in the face but I think, secretly, they think he isn’t really deserving of SEN support because he doesn’t fit the typical SEN kid profile.

Cockerdileteeth · 25/01/2023 17:44

@SockSnout yup. Was one. Now the parent of one. It's a bumpy and knackering old ride isn't it?
Solidarity with you too @Jellycats4life My HLP DS has an SpLD but compensates well enough to meet all the curriculum targets, so of course no SEN support or adjustments (other than what I pay for outside school). I know school don't think he meets the profile to deserve any SEN support because they've told me in terms! Not as hard as your son's situation but close enough to empathise with what you're going through.

Cockerdileteeth · 25/01/2023 17:47

SockSnout · 25/01/2023 17:17

@Cockerdileteeth completely gets it. I am guessing she is a parent to a child with exception learning potential, as am I. It is a.... difficult journey.

I think there is a wee group of us on this thread, unfortunately we're probably all singing to the choir :-)

mastertomsmum · 31/01/2023 14:41

Daffodilsandtuplips · 23/01/2023 19:48

Yes, I know a child just like him, I watched the tv news about this child and Hyperlexia came to mind.

It’s only hyperlexia if the child has enough other traits. Even then, those traits only add up to an ASD diagnosis if there’s no other underlying cause. For example, an extremely prem child may have physical difficulties and developmental issues that can only be described as ‘dyspraxic traits’ because they relate back to their premature birth. Typically, the dyspraxic trait they won’t have is a difficulty with motor planning. Applying this approach to whether a very premature child has ASD, social skills difficulties would be needed for a diagnosis. If the child’s very bright genuine difficulties with social skills can be hard to determine. Early years/pre school friendships are often tricky for bright kids, they are too young to disguise intelligence to help their peers like them. Their peers are too young to adapt to the difference of the bright child.

Basically, it’s complicated.

SirVixofVixHall · 31/01/2023 15:10

Cockerdileteeth · 25/01/2023 17:47

I think there is a wee group of us on this thread, unfortunately we're probably all singing to the choir :-)

True.

Mahanii · 01/02/2023 12:17

@mastertomsmum what are the other traits of hyperlexia? I thought it was just the ability to read at an exceptionally early age.

mastertomsmum · 01/02/2023 13:09

Mahanii · 01/02/2023 12:17

@mastertomsmum what are the other traits of hyperlexia? I thought it was just the ability to read at an exceptionally early age.

Applying the diagnosis of hyperlexia is quite complex. There are many early readers who fall outside the diagnostic criteria for hyperlexia 1, 2 or 3. Hyperlexia 2 is the ASD related.

‘Hyperlexia’ is often anecdotally used to describe one aspect of precocious intelligence or engagement and interest. The main reason for this is that an early reader may appear to have taught themselves to read. Usually, parents aren’t recognising the extent to which their interaction with their child and their facilitation of reading matter and other media are actually teaching their child to read.

Hyperlexia that is part of ASD will usually feature some routine based elements, a similar number based skill acquisition and organisational approach.

The young man we saw on This Morning seemed sociable and lively, very 4 year old not very ASD. Dermot had to show him where the autocue was, a hyperlexic child would be likely to be all over words in the room straight away. But, and this is a big but, all I’m expressing is a couple of observations and a diagnosis can’t be made like that.

I’m not sure I’d want a media circus around my child, which might be more problematic than suspected hyperlexia etc.

Jellycats4life · 01/02/2023 18:07

The three sub-types of hyperlexia aren’t “official” and haven’t been adopted by the medical community though. They were just an idea put forward by one doctor (now deceased) but it never particularly took off. Hyperlexia type 3, for example, is just something he invented to appeal to parents who are desperately hoping that their child isn’t autistic.

I know that because I was one of those parents, for a brief period. It didn’t take me long to come to terms with the fact my child was unquestionably autistic.

mastertomsmum · 02/02/2023 08:53

Jellycats4life · 01/02/2023 18:07

The three sub-types of hyperlexia aren’t “official” and haven’t been adopted by the medical community though. They were just an idea put forward by one doctor (now deceased) but it never particularly took off. Hyperlexia type 3, for example, is just something he invented to appeal to parents who are desperately hoping that their child isn’t autistic.

I know that because I was one of those parents, for a brief period. It didn’t take me long to come to terms with the fact my child was unquestionably autistic.

Yes, I see this. The third type is an anomaly when we apply the current approach to ASD diagnosis.

Currently, if certain traits aren’t present, an ASD diagnosis isn’t obtainable. However, there’s been a lot of widening of criteria and boundaries continue to expand.

I hope the ASD diagnosis has led to some support for you. That - and broader awareness and understanding at school and in life - are the most important things.

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