Now I aint saying she's a golddigger...

[FeelingGoodAsHelll]

Hello all

My title is exactly how I am being made to feel right now.

Me and my husband are currently separating - we aren't legally separated just yet - we need to agree on minute of agreement which will be issued hopefully soon - his solicitor is drawing them up.

We bought out house 2 years before getting married. My STBXH paid the deposit (around 25k). I had just finished uni at that point and was in a trainee role.. so my salary was peanuts for a while. His parents gifted £5k to US (no paperwork, nothing) a few years back and paid towards some of our wedding too. Again, it was to US, no paperwork.

My STBXH, as he earns x4 my salary, decided to overpay the mortgage every month, as he could afford to, and wanted to reduce our mortgage quickly etc. I didnt overpay as I had a lower salary and couldnt afford to. The mortgage / bill split was probably 70/30 (me paying 30, I didnt decide this split, he put everyhthing into a spreadsheet which worked out what we should both pay, his idea).

We verbally made an agreement that I could keep something (I wont say what as it will be very outing) if I dont touch his pension & savings account. He also wanted me to give back his deposit, which I intially agreed but house prices are high so I said no that I wanted the house split 50/50 as per title deeds. He agreed. He then came over a few days ago and told me that he wanted me to agree to not touch anything in his personal bank account (I said I wouldnt, why would I?!). He then said that he wanted x, y, z item from the house added to this "list". I started to get annoyed as this list is getting bigger and bigger and all I wanted was one thing.

Anyway, he said he would buy me out, and pay me half the house, he told me the figure he could afford. Home report came back below this figure (by quite a bit). He now tells me he can't afford it, despite telling me the bank has agreed to lend him the money. He then asked if I would decrease my share. I asked by how much. He then said he wanted all overpayments, his deposit, and all monetary gifts his mum and dad deducted from my share. I told him that we should just sell the house if he can't afford to buy me out, he is reluctant to do this.

I Told him he was taking the piss and that he wont be happy until I walk away with nothing. He profoundly apologised, said he would move money around to get the funds (So he can afford it). I then picked a solicitor who told me that my verbal agreement was rubbish and that she wanted to see all bank accounts, savings, pensions to see what I am legally entitled to. I disagreed but she was quite adamant. I gave my STBXH the heads up about this to which he said, "if you or your solicitor ask any questions, or try and take my pension or savings, the fighting gloves will come on and mud will be thrown... youll walk away with a lot less than 50%, you'll regret it".

In the meantime, he keeps telling me to put offers on properties so I can move out asap but I can't as I don't know what my deposit will be. He keeps telling me to get a mortgage in principle, which I have but they are really low as I am putting down the worst case scenario, i.e. if I do end up with nothing. He told me that he won't give me my share of the money until I give my keys back to him (if he buys me out). I offered to move into my dads, so I can get this money and move on, but asked if I could keep bigger furniture in our house (my dads house is tiny) until I move in my own house, he said no, once I move out, I cant come back. I feel like he is pressuring me. My solicitor said he is bullying me and I should call bluff on the thing he has promised that I can have if I dont touch x, y, z.

I only want 50/50 split on house and the promised thing. However, I feel he is being unfair and pressuring me.

AIBU??

This split was mutal!!

@Squamata
Squamata · Today 13:13
Take half of everything. Pension included. Why do you want an impoverished old age?

I'd refuse to discuss it, let it go through solicitors. Preferable if you're not living together.

God, that’s so unfair when she didn’t earn it.

It would be the same the other way round though, thats marriage.

Both sides will probably spend more in legal fees than the initial agreement

Except that when married property acquired together is 50/50 because what of she didn’t work during the time per an arrangement made… such as she didn’t have the money because she was caring for his elderly mum whilst he worked…. People make decisions in marriage based on the other and property that is acquired jointly is joint.

OP make sure you are happy with your solicitor and then listen to their advice. Get this done properly. Stop discussing the divorce with him, he's already turning nasty.

If I was you I would go hard after everything and then you can concede something to get the dog. However I would take legal advice myself before I went with that plan.

Remember there's loads of men masquerading as women on mumsnet who love to give women a good old kicking when they're down. Everyone has their own set of morals. Frankly who gives a crap what randoms on the internet think, set out to get what is legally yours. No one forced him down that aisle. He probably benefited from the marriage (most men do) in many ways.

Be firm, be strong. This is your future.

Agreed. I was talking to someone yesterday about this. Young and just married.

I said it needs to be explained in simple terms along with the new financial education syllabus in schools. People are just so ignorant about what marriage or civil partnerships mean.

it wasn’t for nothing that the LGB community fought for years to get a legal partnership recognised. Too much heartache and poverty bought on after the death or mental incompetence of a partner where they had no legal standing .

"Dog mum" culture has a lot to answer for if it's leading to women giving up huge swathes of what they're entitled to because they think this is a fair exchange...

(I say that despite thinking that a short marriage, no kids and a massive inequality of contributions should reasonably lead to an unequal split of equity as well - but that's a separate point.)

Let this be a thread to anyone who earns more in a relationship - never get married!

Poor soul who meets this piece of shit on a dating site. That’s why I stay off them now.

there is more to marriage than raising children. I spent my years caring for his elderly mum which allowed him to work. People make decisions in marriage that have financial dependence that go far beyond parenting.

Yep. Or if you have assets. Don't do it. I'm certainly not.

Pmsl that you think a dog might be outing. Can't move for the fucking things these days.

Let your solicitor sort it out and tell your ex to mind his own fucking business when he starts telling you what to do with your finances.

Just go with your legal advice.

The advice here is going to be very mixed based on individual experiences and biases etc.

Legal advice is there for a reason. Just know that his solicitor will want X. Your solicitor will want Z. There will be negotiation/mediation between you two, to agree Y; somewhere between the two positions. So don't waste time getting strung out over the details of the ?extreme positions both solicitors may suggest at the outset; they know ground will be lost. Bargain during this formal mediation. Don't bargain before. Don't bargain directly with him. He is spouting a lot of emotion based nonsense. People behave better when it's formal and witnessed by another reasonable human being (the mediator, his solicitor). And the likelihood is, that when it is all done and agreed you'll have a better understanding of the process and wish you just accepted it as it is earlier rather than wasting time knocking heads with him.

You are usually entitled to pension and savings, after all he was able to contribute to these things as he did while being part of a shared household. But these things are often used as bargaining chips. E.g. I want the dog and 50% of the value of the property, and provided this is agreed as full settlement, I won't seek a share of your pension/investments. But you need full disclosure of assets so that you take part in this bargaining with your eyes wide open. I mean, what if your 30% contribution to household running over the years has allowed him to save 30% of his income in some investment that has made millions? This is why all assets accrued during marriage need to be declared. Living as a couple is cheaper, and both partners should benefit from the gains made during that time (though not necessarily 50/50).

That’s not unfair. In many marriages the man earns and therefore contributes to the property because mmm ya’know, the patriarchy and all that…

I would take 50% of everything too. That’s what a marriage is. You’re entitled to it. The dog is irrelevant to the financial justice of this.

Well you need full financial disclosure here don't you.

Only then can you make an informed decision about what is fair.

He married you, and with that comes the issue of asset division. Please ignore posters blathering on about deposits and mortgage payments and gifts from parents.

Your solicitor wants full disclosure.
Get this, and decide from there.

Stop engaging with him. He's mucked you around and changed the goalposts therefore he needs to go via your solicitor from now on.

@Shgytfgtf111

It wouldn’t be fair the other way round either. I’m no saint but I could never morally square that with myself. Id feel as though I was stealing from somebody, not just somebody, but somebody I once loved and shared my life with.

I read that 51% of woman by 2030 are going to remain childless and unmarried for the entirity of their life.

I think men are wising up to getting married (typically the higher earners).I think they are realising it is just not a lucrative deal. It’s just too easy for a woman to leave them because theyre unhappy and take half of everything they’ve worked hard for and on top of that, potentially take the kids for the majority of the time as well (if they have any).

this was his choice though, to over pay. They could've carried on paying at the regular amounts that SHE could afford.

@UWhatNow

But they have no children, she had the exact same opportunity to earn the same amount as him but chose a different job. Why should he have to pay for her choosing a lower paid job, that’s madness.

Hmm ..no.
if you have children it is vital to be married.
if you don’t marry and just live togther you have no legal rights to

1. make decisions about whether to turn off life support (even with a LPOA if there is a next of kin it can be overridden )
2. pass on property and assets tax free on death of partner even if you contributed to the, but are in their name
3. If they are unconscious, or non capacity, agree to medical treatment (as above wrt LPOA)
4. be entitled to make funeral arrangements (as above wrt LPOA)
5. Widows benefits to support you and any dependants after death of partner
6. Rights to live in matrimonial home even if it is in a single name
7. if you die intestate then all assets will come to you if married by default and quickly. Without that and no will, it is a long drawn out process even if children are involved.

ok, some of these could be mitigated with other legal documents , but that’s the whole point of marriage. At one signature you’re conferring those rights to your partner rather than having to put in place lots of individual water tight legal docs that can’t be challenged by their legal next of kin

as I said earlier, it not for nothing the LGB community fought so hard to have legal partnerships- way too much heartache, trade gay and downright cruelty inflicted on them due to lack of rights,

@beAsensible1

but she still would have paid the same as she’s paid now and take the same amount in equity. Why should she get more just because he has paid it in?

I see it otherwise. My parents gave us a considerable deposit towards our house. The mortgage broker, or solicitor, can’t remember which, made them sign something saying it was a gift, and then we all had to decide whether it was to be ring fenced in the event of a split. So they and I legally decided it was a joint gift to be split equally if we broke up…

Im on the fence with OP’s situation. I get that he has put much more in and she’s walking away much better than she walked in. However I’ve probably put more financially into our lifestyle than my husband (I’d made quite a lot on my previous properties whereas my husband’s ex wife had taken everything but the clothes on his back). I’m also about to inherit quite a large amount. Yet if we broke up tomorrow I’d still give him half of everything because he’s been my partner for two decades through various ups and downs. We’ve been a team.. With my ex I split everything 50/50 even though I hated him and he’d cheated, just so I could walk away with my head held high.

Ps, absolutely DON’T send the dog to a relative. He could say you clearly don’t want it and he’s have it. Or he could give it to one of his relatives.

I have not read all but my default position would be follow the solicitor's advice.
Formal letters from YOUR Solicitor to him will warn him to do do anything stupid.
If he plays nice you can be generous later, but he isn't being nice so far.

Because they married. That’s the point of marriage. Doh

This is truly terrible advice! What about couples with children? Or one is expected to taking on a more supporting role for other reasons.

Op tell him you will only communicate through lawyers from now on and block him. Let your solicitor do everything and stand back, they are qualified to deal with this every day.

Don't be guilted, you have given this man the best years of your life, and he has thrown the towel in, not you. Get a financial detective, your ex dh does not sound remotely decent or trustworthy.

@Aprilx - having some experience in this, whilst 5 years is considered a short marriage, cohabitation beforehand is almost always added on and treated seemlessly - so in the eyes of most judges that would be 15 years, so not so short?