To think this is the WHOLE POINT of tax?

[wheresmymojo]

Daily Fail are frothing today that higher earners pay more tax, and lower earners get more out in various benefits than they pay in.

I thought even the DF understood that the entire point of tax, it's whole reason for existing, is to re-distribute wealth to some extent with the wealthier paying more so that the less wealthy can benefit from a better standard of living?

Have I missed something - are there people who don't know this is what tax is fundamentally supposed to do?

I mean, I'm being fairly genuine...are there actually people who think it's like a bank account and you 'pay in' to 'get out'?

Sorry, front page of the Fail here

Socialism is very evil and bad OP - unless you are rich or a business in which case socialism is absolutely a-okay and we should definitely make sure everyone on that level is supported.

You’re not wrong.

I do find it alarming though that 36 million people are receiving more from the state than they’re paying in contributions. That, clearly, can’t continue, just can’t be sustained.

Wages need to be set at a realistic level, so people don’t need state top ups just to survive.

It's very easy to say "taking more than they put in" when most of these people are probably very low earners so either not paying tax at all or paying a very small amount, therefore anything at all would be "more than they put in".

Note how they don't quote any actual monetary figures.

I think tax was originally to raise money for wars.

But yes I agree with you. And individuals are NOT the only people that pay tax so it's fine. Doesn't need to be 50% paying in and 50% getting more than they are paying in. It doesn't work like that.

This is desperate stuff from the tories really.

Ugh, it's the daily mail they've got to come up with some dog whistle crap to put on the front page everyday 😔
I agree with you though - the whole point of tax is redistribution of wealth from rich to poor. It's not really v complex. Those earning over £100k do fund a lot more than middle or low earners but as a society that is what we have decided is appropriate. Income taxation isn't a progressive tax as such (otherwise it would be flat rates) but it is in my opinion about right as currently set.

And top 10% of earners accounting for 53% of income tax is fine...but then I understand percentages 🤷‍♀️

The headline is absolutely fucking disgusting and pathetic. The cost of living crisis due to conservative action based on their shitty ideology is what causes people to be in this position. But hey let's keep pushing the idea that poor people are lazy fuckers who do absolutely nothing and sit on their tracksuited arses all day buying tvs and holidays to Majorca with their benefit money, and definitely aren't using food banks and sitting in the cold🙄

Oh, this old pony again.

The Mail really does only know one song, doesn't it?

As the top 10% hold about 50% of the wealth, I would absolutely expect them to pay about 50% of the tax. The Fail clearly wants the poor to pay proportionalty more than the rich.

So what do they want the gov to do?

Cut things further?

We already have strikes, ambulance delays and a cost of living crisis.

How bad does the Daily Mail want this country to get?

I think it’s the expectancy of some people, they never ever try to better themselves and expect the state to pay. If all the higher tax payers moved abroad, who is paying for the mum with 7 kids who has never worked, the guy who has a bad back who smokes weed that has never worked, the lady in the wheelchair who works part time but gets help, the people who both work but on minimal wage but get UC, I’ve used examples of things I’ve seen on here, we are all equally responsible in our lives, the more you earn the more you pay, but on here people put it’s ‘not worth me working more cos they cut my benefits’ there is no incentive to better yourself when someone else’s higher tax is keeping you. Just waiting now for the ‘most people on benefits are working’ …like my nephew with his partner and three kids, who only works part time as he wants to see his kids grow up…like any other dad who works full time doesn’t want that!

Yes! You’re right (of course). Amazed the daily fail is even trying with this one. Tax is a form of progressive income redistribution. It used to be that even conservatives would accept this and it was “tinkering” with what level of redistribution was needed and always with the excuse that less redistribution helped lower incomes in the form of more jobs and investment.
Under Truss there was an outburst of extreme capitalism that hasnt been part of our societal approach for a hundred years. Unfortunately this seems to have embolden the wealthy and selfish. I say wealthy and selfish because there are plenty of wealthy people who don’t want to see elderly people homeless or sick people die. The majority of wealthy people are not that selfish, even Toriy voting ones(!). It’s the ultra wealthy who we need to be concerned about and everyone should be United against allowing their mad and frankly evil ideas to be lobbied into policy as the Conservative government makes its death cries.

I agree - it is a problem, just not the one being spun on the front page. I'm tired of subsidising businesses who use the deregulated labour market to pay staff an insecure and irregular wage they cannot actually live on without tax credits or benefits.

There has been a massive shift in jobs which used to have contract hours and regular employment into gig economy models where the tax payer has to top up the staff.

Well I guess if they did a huge restructuring so that working meant you didn't need benefits then you would have far more people being net givers

What is shocking and shameful that a working person can be badly paid and treated that state benefits are worth more. Don't blame individuals for wanting to make the most of their potential incoming, when frankly they'll still be fucking skint. Blame the systems that allow companies to exploit workers, ekeing out every last penny of profit, while their staff are sitting in freezing houses eating shit food or using food banks.

It's not even really for the benefit of the poor, or at least not the sole benefit. The rich benefit when the masses surrounding them are happy and content and have what they need, are fit enough to be productive workers, and are educated enough to do all the jobs that need doing. Most rich people can't afford to pay for all that themselves, so they need to know all the other rich people will be made to chip in for it, too.

This is because Truss economics crashed the pound and sent inflation soaring. It’s not something individuals have control over. It’s also massively increased the gap between the ultra rich and everyone else. So we would expect to see a greater percentage in the ‘putting less in’ bracket.

Also doesn't take into account that many of those lower earners will be working in public sector jobs or service industry roles, so while they may be "taking more out" in terms of benefits - they are contributing to our society in other, vital ways.

This is because Truss economics crashed the pound and sent inflation soaring. It’s not something individuals have control over. It’s also massively increased the gap between the ultra rich and everyone else. So we would expect to see a greater percentage in the ‘putting less in’ bracket.“

yes, I know. Which is why employers who have become used to cheap labour need to pay realistic wages.

I totally agree OP. My household is in top 10% of earners, and we absolute should be taking on most of the tax burden. This is not a high tax country and any people in our tax bracket moaning that they pay too much don't know they're born.

Does the article mean that 50% of the population are on benefits which add up to more than they are taxed (if they can afford to work)?

I can't see how we get out of this spiral if jobs are so badly paid they don't contribute back to the state via tax.

Well no. The point of tax is to fund public services. Not to redistribute money to poor people.

Giving extra to low earners who struggle is perfectly acceptable. Disabled, elderly, sick people all deserve help. However it is disingenuous to not admit there is a small proportion of the population who won't work. These infuriate taxpayers and genuine people in need alike. The focussing on them directs away from genuine claimants Overall taxation works

Those stats could have equally been a story about how disgusting the income disparity is that the top 10% are earning enough to be up for that much tax.