To think this is the WHOLE POINT of tax?

[wheresmymojo]

Daily Fail are frothing today that higher earners pay more tax, and lower earners get more out in various benefits than they pay in.

I thought even the DF understood that the entire point of tax, it's whole reason for existing, is to re-distribute wealth to some extent with the wealthier paying more so that the less wealthy can benefit from a better standard of living?

Have I missed something - are there people who don't know this is what tax is fundamentally supposed to do?

I mean, I'm being fairly genuine...are there actually people who think it's like a bank account and you 'pay in' to 'get out'?

@hamstersarse I agree with you completely. I pay 45% tax, in fact I pay 60% tax on part of my income. That's OK, I understand why and happy to pay. But, on top of what I already pay, suggestions being thrown about to get more out of me are:

Pay 20% VAT on DC's school fees (as well as continue paying for state education I don't use)
Cap my ISA allowance to £100k
Make me pay a one off tax on the value of my house
Make me pay a one off tax on the value of my pension
Increase my income tax to over 50% (some suggestions I should pay 80%)
Pay for any NHS healthcare (I already have private healthcare for major issues but do use my GP)

There comes a point where I might as well just hand over 100% of my earnings to the Government. Although I think even taxing the top 10% of earners at 100% still wouldn't be sufficient to fund everything everyone wants the state to pay.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/distributionofindividualtotalwealthbycharacteristicingreatbritain/april2018tomarch2020#:~:text=Main%20points,of%20private%20pensions%20and%20property.

The problem is the number of net givers is now lower than net takers.

This is the worst the ratio has ever been and not going to work over the long term. Hence the massive UK budget deficit and out of control borrowing.

UK bankruptcy looms and then those dependent on government money will really struggle.

If our taxes are so burdensome on high earners, you have to wonder why they stay here.

Is it because you like having a (previously at least) well run, stable society, reasonable infrastructure etc?

How do you think we achieve that?

Who are you to judge someone's autism as 'dubiously diagnosed' what a vile thing to say.

If you knew anything about autism, you'd realise that it's very difficult to work full time when you have a dependent autistic child.

@MrsSkylerWhite Our ageing population is a time bomb.

That is a myth.

www.sochealth.co.uk/2016/11/14/myth-demographic-time-bomb/

The state is actually much smaller than it was mid-twentieth century.

Where on earth has it increased?

You can't be handing a huge amount of your earnings over to the government if you can afford private school for multiple dc. Just saying.

Dh is a higher rate taxpayer and I am on the cusp of becoming one. We are not very senior at all. Dh told me that his first permanent job out of university that paid him £40k in 2017 is now paying £65k for new entrants (DH now needs to switch jobs because he is AVP in another bank and he earns that amount so he is underpaid!) Basically if you live in the vicinity of London and work in financial services, you can become a higher rate taxpayer straight out of university .

The fact that over 50% of the country are reliant on the government is testament to how unequal and shit the economy is. Basically if you don't work in financial services, tech or corporate law or management (in other industries) or a footballer, you will be paid peanuts. And that is the main reason why so many qualify for benefits, because the salaries are low

Inheritance tax absolutly should exist. Wealth in accumulated property and pensions is one of the biggest reasons we have such a huge disparity in wealth between the top 10% and the rest in this country

But most people who accumulate large pensions and property use it to fund elderly care these days. Not that many people pass on great wealth, and as the years go by, and more and more people live longer, that wealth will gradually disappear.

Just a dead cat to distract us from YET ANOTHER TORY MP being caught for financial wrong-doing.

But most people who accumulate large pensions and property use it to fund elderly care these days. Not that many people pass on great wealth, and as the years go by, and more and more people live longer, that wealth will gradually disappear.

Some do, a lot don’t - they just stay put and rely on A&E as an emergency carer’s service then end up bed blocking.

Daily Fail is ridiculous

But I agree with a pp that another way to do it is make wages higher through minimum wage requirements, so that people do need “top ups” so much, and the wealthiest few wouldn’t be making so much more than the average person.

Thats actually the more honest way to do to too, with fewer get outs and loopholes, so the Fail would like it even less

i worked my arse off to be a higher tax payer, but I am now at the point of total resentment for the con of it all.

So quit and take a minimum wage job. There is a desperate shortage of carers.

Every single higher rate tax payer relies on low paid staff to do their job. If you want to pay less tax, campaign for higher minimum wage, lower house prices and rent caps so that the government doesn't need to top up so much.

The idea that only higher rate tax payers “work their arses off” is very blinkered.

We are higher rate tax payers. Lots of lower rate/non-tax paying employees work considerably harder than we do. We relied upon them during the pandemic too, as we worked from home.

I do find it alarming though that 36 million people are receiving more from the state than they’re paying in contributions. That, clearly, can’t continue, just can’t be sustained.

Take away the 12.4 million people who are in receipt of the state pension which is classed as a benefit by DWP, then that number reduces quite a bit ?

@QuertyGirl - you illustrate my point. “High earners” is who? Those on £60k +? Do you honestly believe that all those people could up sticks and move abroad? Where on earth to? Who is going to employ them? Ridiculous!

Add onto that another 3 million who might also be recieving carers allowance and pension credit and that brings the figure closer to 15 million people.

Well if it's spent inheritance tax wouldn't apply.

We are in this situation with my grandmother. Any savings she had are gone to care home fees, but the fact is that the wealthiest are not. And so they should pay inheritance tax.

Take away the 12.4 million people who are in receipt of the state pension which is classed as a benefit by DWP, then that number reduces quite a bit ?“

The state pension is a benefit, though?

I have no issue whatsoever with paying higher rate taxes. What I do take issue with is people in full time work having to seek state top ups because they can’t survive to a basic level on their wages.
Employers, including the Government, in the Uk have gotten away with shoddy practice for far too long.

Why not? People do it on far less.

It’s a time bomb that’s been coming for 70 years and for which successive governments of both parties have failed to prepare. That’s one of the main problems with our politics, everything is short term.

The poster said they worked their arse off to get where they are, the vast majority of higher rate tax payers will have indeed worked hard to get a well paid job- more so than someone who works at an entry level job. Unless we are seriously saying that highly skilled jobs that require extensive education and/or experience are as easy to get a job in as an entry level role, does anyone believe this?

This isn't to say in any way, shape or form that those in these lower paid roles don't work hard, nor is it a commentary on their value as a human, but how have we reached the point where logic is considered controversial?

Since 2019 there have been 24 tax rises. They can’t keep doing this, especially when you see how many people are not paying tax.

I’m truly done with ‘being empathetic’ to people less well off. I think I’m worse because I’ve been in poverty myself, and I felt a duty to not be and so made the changes I needed to make. The ‘old rich’ I know are still much nicer about it than I am.

What I resent most is this constant cry of ‘tax the rich’ as if it’s a solution to this. Sure, just basically steal/force more money off people and then piss it up the wall. It’ll never be enough tax for some people until there is no such thing as a rich person. There’s a name for that too…..communism

Given that 11m people are retired, 14m are aged under 18 and 15m have a disability the figure of 36m taking out more than they are putting in is not surprising at all.

The aging population coupled with AI and resultant changes to the labour market will mean we will reach a stage where the proportion taking out more than they put in climbs even higher. I expect at some point we will need more wealth taxes and a universal basic income.