Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …

[Duvetdaysaregood]

Did anyone read my previous thread were dd bf invited his parents to stay over Christmas and it was awful? Seemed to be dominating our household etc. bit of a user . We got some very good advice.

We have now been thrown a bit of a new situation and would appreciate advice please.

Our dd has kindly booked us a weekend away , her and us . We were over the moon until we heard the words and bf can come and look after the pets . ( we normally take with us , but cannot to this venue ) .

In the previous thread I identified that the bf said to us he considered our home one of his bases.
There is a backstory in the thread but don't know how to link !

We really dont want him to be in our home by himself (and also possibly invite parents again. )
In the face of our daughters genuine kindness we are instead of feeling pleased , stressed.
We don't want to lose her by insulting her bf , but anyone who has read the previous thread will know why this is really not on .

What in earth can we say to our dd?
We also would like advice on what do to in future a
s we feel that anytime we go away our home may be seen as an opportunity to be moved into as he may see it as a chance for a free holiday ( again if you read the backstory , you will know why)

( we cannot really say oh so and so is moving in for a week to deter ? As this gives the idea its fine for people to move into our home. Of course if it was our dd or other family members it would go without question they are welcome to use our home , we would be glad to let them use it .)
Simply do not know how to deal
with this and as said we don't want to lose dd over the fact that we do not want her bf using our house when we are away — she knows we are naturally inclusive people and will sus that this is not how we are and be surprised if we say no . . she will ask why.. especially has done something so kind for us .

Have only read OP’s posts. I read the last thread.
Am I remembering correctly that you had reason to believe that BF had snooped in your room and let slip information that he shouldn’t have known?

I think using any lies or excuses have the potential to backfire, and personally I’d explain to your dd that on occasion you felt uncomfortable with some things he said/did, and that you wont be letting him stay without you there. Dd is an adult and presumably knows what he’s like, at the end of the day you are allowed to say no to him staying alone (or with his awful family) in your house.

The problem with that is that OP's daughter know that OP has regularly been in the habit of letting people stay there when she goes away.

The previous thread has been linked to on or about page three of this thread.

What do you think your daughter will do if you just say no. It’s your home and your boudaries and if you’re not happy just say no and if she asks for a response just keep repeating that you don’t feel comfortable, nothing else nothing more - simple.

OP your post reminded me of this one from another poster who had a tricky time with her DD and Son in Law. I am not saying that your DD will end up like this but I think it might be worth keeping in mind that it's a good idea of have firm boundaries, but not go for conflict with the bf (not that you would!)

She posted after this thread but I can't find it.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/3756756-Reconciliation-after-estrangement

Hi OP,
I’m sorry your situation sounds so difficult because you sound kind and don’t want to upset your daughter, but worried. I would like to question this comment from you:

“Dd has noticed that we are getting older and wants to spend time with us as a family . That is why he is not invited.”

That’s not a dynamic I recognise from my own family relationships. We spend time with family with or without each other but if the partner is not present it is because they are busy, under the weather, caring for the children, getting jobs/DIY done or it’s a ladies/men’s thing. I think it is unlikely that your daughter’s boyfriend would not come on a break to give you time alone as a couple and adult child - especially as he claims you are second parents- so I would unfortunately be suspicious of their motives.

I think as this will be an ongoing issue you need to speak to your daughter. Something like “this is difficult because I don’t want to offend you but I’m not comfortable having Fred staying in our house when we aren’t there. I’m sorry but that is how I feel.”

and take it from there.

I discussed with my husband and he said let it happen but put cameras in every room! Secret cameras would be pretty immoral/violate privacy but you could have known cameras in communal areas including the corridor with your bedroom door. Tell them this is your new system to keep an eye on the dogs.

I agree with this.

Don’t sit there hand-wringing so that you unwittingly facilitate your DD into a lifelong shit exploitative RS.

If you have any foundation of love and respect built up between you both over her childhood she will know that your intentions are good and that you would only bring this up for her benefit.

She may be disappointed, flounce or feel stung initially but she will come round if you keep showing her you love her.

Don’t let her fall any deeper into this trap.

As a PP said - what do her friends think of him - or have they gone quiet?

So, insurance often doesn’t cover you for people other than immediate family. You can say you’ve just renewed the insurance and it doesn’t cover overnight guests so you can’t risk it while you are away. It’s actually true as I found when we had people staying over fir a long time (most policies).

and if you have a mortgage it invalidates your mortgage if you don’t have insurance cover. If the bf burns your house down you wouldn’t be covered. It’s unlikely to happen, but we can’t take these kinds of risks with mortgages etc…

OP I think there's a case ANYWAY for having professional house sitters from a good agency, as, if they get ill or any emergency arises or there is an issue with the dogs, they have the support and insurance from the agency. (We once had a sitter suffer a family emergency and the agency found a new sitter to replace her mid job).

If you have multiple dogs the additional expense is less, at least. It will still cost you but it might be worth it?

It is NOT fair to put an amateur in that position of responsibility unless the whole situation is very well thought through and they have the appropriate experience and support.
Ok, now, all the above is luckily still true... regardless of the fact that you don't trust the bf. :)
So if you don't want to have the hard conversation just yet, book the sitters, and optionally, add an extra lock and give only them the keys.
The sitters will need their privacy (true) so anyone else staying while they are there is out of the question.

And while they are out of the house it's locked with a key that only you and they have.
Publicly you can take the line that they don't have your main key, so no worries about what they do with New Key (ditto cleaners and other outside workers).

I'd go for 'no thank you, that won't be necessary. We wouldn't feel comfortable with him staying here without us.' If needed you can mention that he snooped in your room and you'd rather not have a repeat, especially with while house access. And change the locks.

I read your previous thread and completely understand why you are stressed by this.

Now is the time OP to put this to bed otherwise it will continue to happen.

This is what I would do:

• change the locks/add a new lock. This means you will never have to worry about them/him getting into your home. I realise this means your daughter cannot access but it's a price worth paying imo. Don't tell her, if they try to get in when you're away without telling you then you can ask why they were doing that? And then lie and say you did tell her, she must have forgotten.

• tell her that you are putting the pets in kennels/ someone they know is looking after them. Do not engage in conversation - be clear this is the decision you have made. Lie if necessary and say it's someone you've used before.

• lastly if your dd asks to use the house when you're not there, just say you'd rather she didn't or just don't tell her your going away.

Sorry the above sounds harsh but you are not going to be able to stop him unless you lie to her. You don't know how controlling he is do you are probably protecting her by lying. You need to just say 'no' and be firm.

Agree.

I cannot get my head around such a fearful relationship.
In all my friendships I've never heard anyone be so imposed upon and so fearful of their child.

Also how interesting that just 3 weeks after you got rid of them she is aware time is now so short??

You are early 60's and she's writing you off or she's thinking of your will?

He certainly is planning on spending a lot of time in the future at the OP's home, after only 3 weeks after a free week at Christmas he has clearly orchestrated a full recon of the empty property asap.

I can tell you that I certainly wouldn't want him and your daughter involved in my elder care.

I have read your posts on your other thread, I have to say his family being poor or financially insecure has nothing to do with their behaviour, I come from a poor family, most don’t own their own homes, work in minimum wage zero hours contract jobs, and a couple on benefits. This isn’t because they are lazy they are all hard workers who pay their way unless they physically can’t (referring to my relatives on benefits). At no point would any one of them dream of imposing on others unless they were able to contribute financially, either in the way of money, gifts etc.. And anyone who didn’t put their hand in their pocket for a round would be called out. It’s simple, if you can’t afford to pay your way you don’t go or you have a plan in place e,g my cousins and I would regularly cover each other if one of us was tight on cash.

His family sound very arrogant and grabby.

I would absolutely tell your DD your feelings, I doubt she would thank you it the relationship goes tits up and you’d kept your feelings to yourself. You don’t have to be overly critical, just that you were uncomfortable with their last stay and although he’s her bf you don’t want to give him free reign over your home. Obviously he’s welcome with her but your home is not a hotel, if he wants to be treat like family he contributes likes everyone else when it comes to household chores.

@TedMullins

Interested to know what culture you're from that all this is normal and expected, because I would bet that the flipside of it is misogyny and women not being able to do certain things themselves, or it not being deemed 'proper' for them to do them.

I'm a bit worried I've de-railed the thread. Sorry OP. But in reply to the above, a country that used to be a British colony and a certain sector of society (wealthier) clings onto those old societal British traditions. Also quite religious. I'm not going to say which one because it's outing. But yes, the flip side is a patronising condescending macho society. Women tend to either fawn about looking after the men-folk or do it grudgingly and whinge about their men.

My immediate family has all women very independent and well-educated and therefore intolerant of misogyny or paternalism. BUT, it also has men conforming to these old traditions. I don't find it demeaning from them because I know these men and it isn't coupled with sexism. Having said that, my extended family - the religious ones - has men who do all this stuff AND think they're superior to women. In spite of their chivalry, they are dicks. Their favourite sport is trying to make me look stupid to make themselves feel better.

*Personally I would absolutely hate it if my partner did any of those things you list - I don't want to be treated like a damsel in distress. Nor would I care if he served himself first at a buffet or poured himself a drink before anyone else. But I don't value tradition, etiquette and made-up social niceties because a lot of the time they're used to cover for oppressive or negative expectations, e.g. women not being allowed as much autonomy.

Totally off topic, sorry*!

I don't expect him to do it in the UK, but I want him to do it when he's with my family. It embarrasses me when he doesn't. If this happened to me in the UK from men I didn't know (which according to some posters on this thread is standard behaviour for normal British blokes so it's weird it never does) it would give me the creeps.

If our culture was to pat your head ten times before speaking, I'd hope he'd do that too, even if it wasn't natural to him.

PS OP I do understand that there are some people who - at the CURRENT stage in their lives - one can't have frank and adult conversations with, without it all blowing up.

(I was quite a "young" twenty something myself, I mean NOW ofc I look back and cringe..).

Sometimes the white lies (ideally not even lies, just a carefully chosen version of the truth) tide things over just long enough for the problem to disappear. So they definitely can be a useful tactic!

Yes, ideally you could say, "DD it's your choice who to date, we 100% agree, but our home is our choice." But I've definitely known people who would take that very badly...

I think I have lived in the USA too long. I just don’t understand the U.K. reticence with just saying “NO”.

All this handwringing. No one has to give reasons but should just go ahead and arrange what suits them.

OP can manage all of that without the lying.

My guess is that OP's adult daughter hasn't heard nearly enough truth in her life.

One just like Britain apparently ... according to posters here my DH is a massive exception to the norm in both our countries. I mean, doors get opened so often for me here that I've almost forgotten how to do it for myself. And I've never ever had to stand on a bus before ... 🙄 (It would be outing to say exactly).

I agree with this.

I really find all this tiptoeing around adult children who don’t even live in the house really most odd.

Surely to God you can just say no, I’m not comfortable with that. When she pushes back you say that it’s your home and you decide who stays and who doesn’t. Quite honestly, if she started pushing beyond that then I’d be putting her straight very firmly. I think she’s taking the piss and it sounds like her DP may well be behind it.

I can’t imagine ever trying to pull this stuff with my parents who wouldn’t have entertained it for a second. If I’d declared someone was coming to stay in the house I’d have been told “No, they bloody well aren’t, this isn’t a hotel” and that would have been the end of it.

You being so fearful of saying anything that may upset your daughter is really not normal.

I didn't really read your first thread but having posted on this one I thought I'd take a look. Your daughter's BF is a sly little begger and I'd be taking this rather more seriously if I were you. Please stop worrying about upsetting your DD and worry instead about what a bad thing having this guy around will be for you all, he isn't to be trusted and there's no way he'd be coming into my house uninvited.

I’d be honest. DD we love you and know you love this man. But last time he visited he crossed many of our boundaries including going into our bedroom, taking things that aren’t his and upsetting us with the way he spoke to your father. Given he was willing to do that openly we don’t want him in our home unsupervised.

This is perfect.

Make your boundaries clear now OP, don't wait for him to make you even more uncomfortable.

He went into your bedroom (already completely inappropriate) and then he pushed boundaries by mentioning to you something he knew you knew he could only know if he'd been in there.

Either he's so arrogant he didn't give a fuck about how unsettling that would be for you, or he enjoyed you feeling uncomfortable / was testing your boundaries and what you'll put up with in the name of 'not making things awkward'.

Be firm. It's your home.

I know you’ve stated you don’t like confrontation but for your DD sake I think you model what reasonable behaviour around other people’s houses and possessions. You don’t need to be confrontational as such just say that doesn’t work for us I’m afraid. It’s completely normal and reasonable to not want people to say you don’t want people in your house when you aren’t there. I wouldn’t want my own family here when I’m not here. If you don’t say now I feel like you will really regret it. Good luck!

It sounds to me like the boyfriend is encouraging the trip - and trying to force his “services” as the dog sitter - so he can move himself and his parents in for a nice free getaway. This will never stop unless you are honest with your DD as to why you do not want these people to stay. Don’t make excuses, just be (gently) honest. It is your house, and you get to decide who has access to it. End of.

If you don’t want to tell your dd No, the book a pet sitter to be in your home, or even make them think it’s in your home and tell them you want to leave them to it so that you have someone for the future when you all go away, or if they ever got married or if you need help as your getting older etc, you would need an outsider to sit, so they need to be left to it to learn your pets and be able to help