Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …

[Duvetdaysaregood]

Did anyone read my previous thread were dd bf invited his parents to stay over Christmas and it was awful? Seemed to be dominating our household etc. bit of a user . We got some very good advice.

We have now been thrown a bit of a new situation and would appreciate advice please.

Our dd has kindly booked us a weekend away , her and us . We were over the moon until we heard the words and bf can come and look after the pets . ( we normally take with us , but cannot to this venue ) .

In the previous thread I identified that the bf said to us he considered our home one of his bases.
There is a backstory in the thread but don't know how to link !

We really dont want him to be in our home by himself (and also possibly invite parents again. )
In the face of our daughters genuine kindness we are instead of feeling pleased , stressed.
We don't want to lose her by insulting her bf , but anyone who has read the previous thread will know why this is really not on .

What in earth can we say to our dd?
We also would like advice on what do to in future a
s we feel that anytime we go away our home may be seen as an opportunity to be moved into as he may see it as a chance for a free holiday ( again if you read the backstory , you will know why)

( we cannot really say oh so and so is moving in for a week to deter ? As this gives the idea its fine for people to move into our home. Of course if it was our dd or other family members it would go without question they are welcome to use our home , we would be glad to let them use it .)
Simply do not know how to deal
with this and as said we don't want to lose dd over the fact that we do not want her bf using our house when we are away — she knows we are naturally inclusive people and will sus that this is not how we are and be surprised if we say no . . she will ask why.. especially has done something so kind for us .

sisuyo · Today 12:01
Can you say something like you are using the empty house opportunity to have it decorated, or odd jobs doneX garden tidied, electrics sorted?! House deep cleaned by team of cleaners? Something that means the house is occupied and needs to be empty of people for workers? And get the pets somewhere else etc?

Apart from the fact that these suggestions have already been made throughout the thread, it would be pointless as the same situation will arise again.

OP, you and your husband should be able to say they don't want anyone staying in their house in their absence.

Absolutely definitely change the locks or get an additional one out in, as he is liable to turn up whatever you say.

You need to have that conversation… we do not want him to stay in our house, we do not want his parents to visit again. This is our house, not one of his bases - he wants a holiday, he should find an air b&b.
pussyfooting around is not going to solve this issue.
install a video doorbell and some cctv and change the locks

Exactly this. Beautifully put, by the way.

OMG. Don't be so passive.

"No, X may not visit our home whilst we're away. The dogs will be in kennels"

Do not explain. Do not engage. Change the locks.

If she doesn't like it then she can lump it.

He has likely targeted your DD as she / you are financially comfortable / have more than them

Very possibly, yes - underlined by the recent "loss in the family" which makes me wonder if he's sniffing around for more

Anyway what do you think, @Duvetdaysaregood ? As on your last thread the good people of Mumsnet have offered lots of suggestions and things to think about - do you feel any are worth following up on, or will it revert to the status quo?

Hmm. I think @RaspberryCaner is onto something.
@Duvetdaysaregood I think you need some kind of assertivenes training. People continue to walk over you because they can. Stop being such a people pleaser.

There is no way that DD would have even thought to ask me if her partner could stay in our house without her because she knows perfectly well the answer will be no.

You need to learn what boundaries are and create some otherwise people will keep using you. If you don't respect yourself no-one else will.

What does your DH say?

Have you a house alarm? If not, get one.
If you do, change the house alarm.
Get a ring doorbell. Put your dogs in kennels.

It's your house, and only to be used by you, unless there is a specific invite.

I think it's time you had an honest conversation with your daughter about her BF and BF's family. You might put a plaster over this situation , but there will be another situation, and another one after that.

Use the issues at Christmas as an example, explain clearly that you don't have any strong negative feelings about them in lot's of ways, but that you do not want them staying in your home due to the example they set previously.

*Normal British blokes help with heavy bags, make sure elderly/kids are fed first at buffets, & generally don't sit around on their arses while everybody else does the work.

His class has got jack-all to do with anything.
He's just rude & lazy.*

No, again.

Elderly and kids, maybe. British blokes do not stand back for women to eat first.

British blokes don't typically see tasks in gendered roles. He'd expect me to ask him to help if a bag was heavy, and he would absolutely help, but he'd expect me to carry it myself if it wasn't. Men in my country try carry everything and they don't wait to be asked. There is a difference.

He's not rude. He's not lazy either, but we have endless arguments about the mental load involved in remembering what needs to be done. Different issue.

I'm sorry, but to say men generally don't sit around on their arses while everybody else does the work in context of family stuff made me smile.

I'm not going to carry on rebutting defensiveness because it'll derail the thread. But there is a massive difference, which I am aware of and perhaps you aren't because I straddle it.

OK, I would suggest that first you either change locks or, if possible, add an extra one you can lock or not as you choose, so that you can keep him locked out. I would also add a ring doorbell and a couple of pet cams indoors so when he visits you can record what he is up to in your bedroom.
Next, I think you have to have an honest conversation with your daughter. You can't keep up an endless stream of excuses why he can't be in your house. But you could use an excuse as a one off and have the conversation face to face on your trip away if you think that would be easier. So for example you could say that one of the dogs is a little unwell so your husband will stay home with the dogs and you go away with your daughter, maybe suggest you book a spa visit on your break. No need for her partner to come to your house. Then talk it out with her when you are away. Or tell them that you have booked an insured house and pet sitter so no need to inconvenience her partner.
I would be very suspicious that the purpose of this trip is for him to be in your house alone. You won't enjoy the break if you are worrying. Their reaction to you turning down his kind offer to stay in your house will be interesting. I wonder if the trip away will disappear, or if he will come with you

This makes a lot of sense!

He sounds like a sociopath. Hoovering you in, treating you like you’re toys, creating fake familial connections. Plus the way he treats your dd. I agree with others you need to have the hard conversations with your dd. You also need to teach he about boundaries. I think you’ve blurred a lot by being incredibly generous and hospitable with others and I’m betting your dd has not learned about boundaries.

@Duvetdaysaregood

Just be honest and tell your daughter the truth

Yes, @RaspberryCaner has hit the nail on the head. Please read and re-read that post and think about what you would like to model for your DD instead.

There’s a link on the third page of this thread.

You are going to have to have an honest and frank conversation with your daughter or this is going to go on forever, a permanent blight in your life.
I would tell her whilst you are happy she has found someone she loves, after him and his parents took unfair advantage at Xmas you do not want her bf to stay without her there and you most definitely don’t want his parents over to stay ever again.
It might upset her or it might make her think but she need to know how you feel.

OP do you normally have problems with being assertive, or is it just over this?

I'm another voice saying you need to talk to her, calmly and factually. That you feel he is taking advantage of you, that he doesn't respect boundaries. That it is her home but her bf is still a guest and that you expect a certain standard of politeness, part of which is him recognising that this is your home not his. That you feel uncomfortable when he talks about what he's got for free, that he always mentions that he's got 'the best'. Tell her about your book, and the only way he could know, If she denies he's been in your room, ask her how else he could have known.

I know you don't want to have that conversation. But you have to. As long as you are factual and not emotional, how DD responds is up to her. You say you have a set of family values and that DD has been brought up within them, and sees how you and DH model them every day. It may be the case that she is prepared to jettison those values with regards to the bf, but that's on her.

She may reduce contact for a while, but I think she'll come back.

A different story... DP and I were staying at my parents. We had chips at one meal and DP likes vinegar on them, but it wasn't out. So he asked if he could go and get it. If he'd stopped and thought about it, he'd have known the answer would be yes of course. The point is...he asked. We'd been together for 30+ years.

I agree with PP that you should a) make dog arrangements b) change the locks on basis of losing key or something c) explain as you get older you feel far less comfortable with people being in house in your absence and thanks but no thanks.

but I also agree with PP you need an honest conversation with DD about this...

I'm also from a different culture and married to a British man, Sorry but I think you got a dud. Mine is exceptionally well mannered and wouldn't dream of doing any of the things your lazy arse DH does.

@Duvetdaysaregood Have you thought that it is the boyfriend manipulating your DD and she is like you, unable to set boundaries and say no?

So rather than upsetting your DD you could actually be helping her out as she may be in a relationship where she is being coerced and in turn he is also exercising some control over you and your DH it would seem.

I'm sick of all these excuses people are "advising" OP to use.
There's bigger fish to fry, It isn't going to solve the problem, just put a band-aid on it. OP read @RaspberryCaner She's hit the nail on the head!

You just need to be honest. Put the dogs in kennels and tell dd you're not comfortable with her bf staying in the house while you're away. It's your house and you're not remotely being unreasonable by being the ones who decide who is in it and when.

I find this very suspicious….

I can’t help wondering if the subject of your will is going to come up…After all, the CF and his family need to know how much she’s worth…. I would be prepared for this, and just tell her that it’s not open to discussion and you aren’t planning to depart just yet..

Your daughter is an adult, and you are going to have to treat her like one, and behave like one yourself. All this fear of falling out with her, fear of upsetting anyone…and yet you are the ones who were upset at Christmas. Was your daughter worried? I suspect she wasn’t, and has tried to justify CF’s behaviour.

Certain things need to be said and stuck to….

We have always welcomed your friends and tried to be hospitable, but we don’t like being taken advantage of.

Christmas was very upsetting for us for several reasons and we have no intention of allowing that situation to happen again.

We know you are very fond of CF but we don’t like the way he has assumed our house is one of his bases, and that he can stay when he wants to. Because he can’t.

And his unwillingness to help in any way or to buy so much as a can of coke made us feel he really wasn’t as nice as you have painted him.

We are not going to be made to feel uncomfortable in our own home, so in future he is welcome to come for a meal with you but not stay the night. And neither he or any of his family will be permitted to stay in our house while we are away.

Your daughter won’t like most of that. But she’s old enough to make choices. And I suspect once the CF realises he and his awful family aren’t getting free holidays he will back off.
If he does come for a meal, scale it right back. No more that two bottles of wine, dinner and a pudding. Something basic but nice. No more three course meals and unlimited wine. And if he wants to go to the pub ask if he’s buying..

It’s hard when you are by nature hospitable and generous, but sadly you are being taken advantage of.

Is it possible that your DD noticed that all was not well at Christmas and wants to check in with you on her own?
You have one main problem here, with several parts, that I would split and tackle over time.
1: long term boyfriend and his attitude (to your daughter and everyone else): This may take time and slow chipping away at- she needs to know you are there for HER when she’s ready. He’s only welcome because you love her and he seems to make her happy.
a) Immediate issue: boyfriend in your house when you are not there:
you’ve had lots of great advice on this thread. Maybe go for a softened version the truth- and that HER friends don’t get to stay in YOUR HOME on their own. (You can site insurance issues, Auntie Mable doesn’t want a stranger when she’s house sitting or the pre booked dog / house sitter is not covered if there’s a stranger in the house (insurance wise he’s a stranger as he’s not a legal member of the family. And maybe you have got a different insurance company these days)
b) Boyfriend and his family visiting: This can then be tackled when you have your DD alone on holiday. (She might actually be wanting to bring it up!) Re-read what Billy suggested on your original thread (around page 26 ???) Christmas was very stressful and expensive. They made you very uncomfortable in your home. How exhausting you found him and his parents, unlike You will not allow that again. (insert names and appropriate behaviour of welcome guests as required)
Keep stressing that you normally enjoy entertaining, but not when people take advantage and see hospitality as a weakness.
DD has seen you with many different types of guest, and has seen how good guests behave. Let her work it out in her own time.

I can understand why Confusionisrife doesn’t want to tackle the bf or her Dd because when she does he is so subtle and so manipulative that they end up in the dds eyes as the aggressors

I think Confusionisrife you have to be equally subtle if he can convince your Dd that he isn’t a thief despite someone seeing the theft with their own eyes, He can convince her of anything

Going at this like the proverbial Bull is just going to put up barriers if she really is this smitten.

When you are next having a light hearted conversation drop in a joke about her bf knowing what book you are reading and calling her father his 2nd dad and then wanting to stay at your house when you aren’t there. Should you be flattered or worried as it does sound a bit creepy stalker vibe

Add in laughing that his family seemed to not want to go home at Christmas and you are getting the impression that he and his family are giving the impression of having a bit of an obsession with you and her father. Wife swapping perhaps 🤣🤣🤣

I would also drop in at some point in a different conversation that you and your father have not fared well with your finances and have done an equity release to pay off some debts and keep you living in the house till you die and are looking to enjoy yourself

That way if he is being with your Dd because he sees £££££££££signs then it might just see him off.

Or say you are looking at selling and then renting as you need the money to go travelling the world with the dogs. Or are donating it all to the local dogs home or something else which would mean there wouldn’t be any money.

The equity release would mean there would be nothing to change to your life style.

Either way I would invest in a safe to guard all your personal paperwork

He could end up selling the house from under you and you wouldn’t know a thing till the new owners arrive with a van load of furniture

I would also rig up Cctv inside the house to see what he really is up to.

Maybe because of my upbringing I am really cynical of people who want to get too close too quickly and want to call me sister/mother/daughter when I am neither