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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Our guests are hinting they wont leave .. continued thread …

802 replies

Duvetdaysaregood · 23/01/2023 09:31

Did anyone read my previous thread were dd bf invited his parents to stay over Christmas and it was awful? Seemed to be dominating our household etc. bit of a user . We got some very good advice.

We have now been thrown a bit of a new situation and would appreciate advice please.

Our dd has kindly booked us a weekend away , her and us . We were over the moon until we heard the words and bf can come and look after the pets . ( we normally take with us , but cannot to this venue ) .

In the previous thread I identified that the bf said to us he considered our home one of his bases.
There is a backstory in the thread but don't know how to link !

We really dont want him to be in our home by himself (and also possibly invite parents again. )
In the face of our daughters genuine kindness we are instead of feeling pleased , stressed.
We don't want to lose her by insulting her bf , but anyone who has read the previous thread will know why this is really not on .

What in earth can we say to our dd?
We also would like advice on what do to in future a
s we feel that anytime we go away our home may be seen as an opportunity to be moved into as he may see it as a chance for a free holiday ( again if you read the backstory , you will know why)

( we cannot really say oh so and so is moving in for a week to deter ? As this gives the idea its fine for people to move into our home. Of course if it was our dd or other family members it would go without question they are welcome to use our home , we would be glad to let them use it .)
Simply do not know how to deal
with this and as said we don't want to lose dd over the fact that we do not want her bf using our house when we are away — she knows we are naturally inclusive people and will sus that this is not how we are and be surprised if we say no . . she will ask why.. especially has done something so kind for us .

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
pattihews · 23/01/2023 12:05

I've just mentioned this thread to a colleague and he suggested telling DD that the dogs are going into kennels, no need for BF to be there — and directly contacting BF and saying thanks for the offer of dog-sitting but no thanks. Colleague wondered why BF isn't coming away with you on this lovely break and thought it sounded dodgy. I would be concerned

He suggested installing a Ring doorbell and a couple of discreet pet cams/ Blink-type cameras in the kitchen and your bedroom. Remove all valuables and computers etc and ask a trusted friend to look after them while you're away. Hope BF lets himself in and is seen rifling drawers and drinking your booze while you're gone and let your daughter see what he's really like.

We've all met men like this. There are some people who will always be out for what they can get and can't be trusted not to overstep boundaries. He's learned that from his dad, probably. Your daughter deserves better.

Tigresses · 23/01/2023 12:06

Peridot1 · 23/01/2023 12:02

I have to say I agree with those who are saying you need to be honest with your DD. I wouldn’t want any daughter of mine marrying him! You can do it gently. But she has to have noticed the behaviour. She is probably glossing over it a bit and maybe hopes you haven’t noticed. I would tell her you have noticed and it’s not behaviour you appreciate. It’s not how you brought her up and you are saddened that she thinks it’s acceptable. Yes she may well be hurt initially but ultimately you may save her from a disaster. I would hazard a guess that her friends aren’t keen on him either.

Yes do her a favour.

If it’s uncomfortable that’s OK.

Its likely stuff she has been denying, dismissing and ignoring.

BunchHarman · 23/01/2023 12:06

Anyone got a link to the first thread?

Tomatoblush · 23/01/2023 12:08

He sounds like a bully and a user.
I can see why you don’t want to upset your daughter because I’m the same with mine. I always want to keep her happy but sometimes you just have to bite the bullet or you will be walked over time and time again.
He is causing you and your husband untold stress and anxiety I’m sure your daughter doesn’t want that for you.

crosshatching · 23/01/2023 12:09

Honestly OP I'm slightly with some of the others wondering about the generosity of this offer of your DD.

However, I would be aware that just as you find her DP and his family overwhelming and slightly intimidating she might too and want some time with her family to help her find her way free of him?

Respectfully it's possible she's mirroring your and your DH's behaviour in as much as you don't seem to be able to project boundaries (even if it's just not something you've had to do before), and neither can she. I'd go just you on the weekend, tell her DH has had a clash and needs to stay home. See if you can get to the bottom of what's really going on in her relationship and how she really feels about it.

Tigresses · 23/01/2023 12:10

pattihews · 23/01/2023 12:05

I've just mentioned this thread to a colleague and he suggested telling DD that the dogs are going into kennels, no need for BF to be there — and directly contacting BF and saying thanks for the offer of dog-sitting but no thanks. Colleague wondered why BF isn't coming away with you on this lovely break and thought it sounded dodgy. I would be concerned

He suggested installing a Ring doorbell and a couple of discreet pet cams/ Blink-type cameras in the kitchen and your bedroom. Remove all valuables and computers etc and ask a trusted friend to look after them while you're away. Hope BF lets himself in and is seen rifling drawers and drinking your booze while you're gone and let your daughter see what he's really like.

We've all met men like this. There are some people who will always be out for what they can get and can't be trusted not to overstep boundaries. He's learned that from his dad, probably. Your daughter deserves better.

And he has likely targeted your DD as she / you are financially comfortable / have more than them.

I was just thinking the other day that young people with relationship issues should ask a 60 year old - they will have seen / heard how these things pan out. No need to live the inevitable.

SmallPrawnEnergy · 23/01/2023 12:10

I’d be honest. DD we love you and know you love this man. But last time he visited he crossed many of our boundaries including going into our bedroom, taking things that aren’t his and upsetting us with the way he spoke to your father. Given he was willing to do that openly we don’t want him in our home unsupervised

This basically. It’s worrying you think your daughter will kick off or you’ll “lose” her if you even try to enforce boundaries. Is she prone to hysterics like that? Or gas she generally an entitled brat that you give into?

Fraaahnces · 23/01/2023 12:11

Honestly if that guy is hanging around waiting for a future inheritance like a vulture, I would consider locking her inheritance into some kind of managed trust fund. It would be worth seeking legal advice about this, as even letting the CF bf and family know that this would be all ringfenced and out of their paws might send them packing. (You could change it later once you knew they were permanently gone for good.)
He sounds like a bloody Andrew Tate fan.

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 12:12

WeepingSomnambulist · 23/01/2023 11:50

@wednesdaynamesep

That is not how British people behave. That is how your husband behaves, which probably means it is how his family behave. He was raised without manners. People tend to form social groups with similar people, so maybe his male friends are also quite "me first" and self absorbed.

British culture isnt quite as chivalrous as some others of course, but we aren't rude in the way you have described your husband.

Some people are obviously. But it isnt "the British way".

You've just met and married a self absorbed, rude British man. Had you met and married my partner, youd have someone who run round to open the car door for you and carries the heavy things and puts my children (not his, they're mine from a previous relationship) before himself in every queue we go in and what game they want to play.

Same as my dad. Proper "gentleman."

Well ... I was trying to avoid the word 'class' and settled on British instead. And used 'chivalry' instead of manners. Because my husband isn't actually rude- he just looks rude out of his British context.

My DH is solidly middle class and no one in the UK would ever describe him as rude. He's kind, a brilliant dad and very very bright. If he was a pig-ignorant oaf, I wouldn't have married him. But the way my family behave is just not how he was raised. Mine are as if they've stepped out of a period drama on TV. DH is a normal British bloke.

Tigresses · 23/01/2023 12:13

crosshatching · 23/01/2023 12:09

Honestly OP I'm slightly with some of the others wondering about the generosity of this offer of your DD.

However, I would be aware that just as you find her DP and his family overwhelming and slightly intimidating she might too and want some time with her family to help her find her way free of him?

Respectfully it's possible she's mirroring your and your DH's behaviour in as much as you don't seem to be able to project boundaries (even if it's just not something you've had to do before), and neither can she. I'd go just you on the weekend, tell her DH has had a clash and needs to stay home. See if you can get to the bottom of what's really going on in her relationship and how she really feels about it.

That’s an important spot and a great idea.

Only tell her at the last minute that DF / DH can’t make it.

But tell her upfront “No” to BF.

CousinKrispy · 23/01/2023 12:15

One thing to remember OP is that even if your DD is upset by your actions, setting boundaries is a good thing to demonstrate to her. That's a valuable life skill and can help protect her from significant pain and harm from others in all kinds of situations, not just her ghastly boyfriend. So you're doing something loving and supportive by demonstrating how it works.

Back2Back2t · 23/01/2023 12:16

This sounds like a lifetime movie 😂

OP I agree with the above, something's not quite right! Open your eyes OP and put your investigators glasses on.

aloris · 23/01/2023 12:16

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread yet but I read all your posts on this and the other thread. It gave me anxiety for you! I agree with those who said you need to approach this directly with your daughter rather than trying to pretend it is ok, otherwise this will keep happening and eventually her bf will wear you down and make you very unhappy, and possibly steal from you. I think there are four pieces of information you need to communicate to your daughter:

  1. Her boyfriend was disrespectful to your husband in his own home, calling him unmanly, and other examples of trying to dominate your dad in his own home. That is not ok and your husband is unwilling to be treated this way in his own home.
  2. Her boyfriend went into your private bedroom without permission as you know because he mentioned a book on your bedside table that you did not take outside the room at all. You feel your privacy was invaded and your hospitality was not respected. That is not ok, and you will be putting in new boundaries to protect yourself from such behaviors.
  3. You observed her boyfriend steal something from a shop (or whatever your evidence is; I'm going by how I interpreted what you wrote in your other thread).
  4. Unlike other guests, her boyfriend and his parents overstayed their welcome and did not contribute to food.
You said that since your family has a habit of welcoming guests into your home, that it is difficult to justify NOT letting your dd's bf or his family stay. However, it also sounds like your other guests don't treat you like this.

Your dd is probably going to be defensive about her boyfriend, from what you describe of her. But you really cannot allow yourself to be taken advantage of, like this. You want to treat her just the same as you always treated her, like a beloved daughter who has the run of the house. But she is putting her boyfriend's feelings over your wellbeing and her boyfriend has some risky behaviors (from your perspective) so you can't do that any more. You have to stand up for yourselves.

I think you can take one of two paths here. The first is to communicate, directly or indirectly to your daughter, that her boyfriend and his family will be treated differently than other guests, because they behave differently than other guests. They overstepped their boundaries and were not respectful towards you. Your daughter can explain it away: he didn't really steal, how do you know he went into your bedroom, etc. But all of that is not important. What is important is that it is YOUR home and YOU are uncomfortable. So that is what you keep repeating. This is our home and we feel uncomfortable. We don't want bf or his parents here unless we are here. In future, they are only invited if we say they are invited. We can't force them to chip in for food but the food they eat is what we offer, they can't just go into the refrigerator or pantry and pick what they like. And for the same reasons (all the above), they don't come unless we invite them and they only stay as long as we invite them.

The second possible path is to start shifting your approach to guests altogether. You are getting older and unfortunately that makes you somewhat more vulnerable. You will, at some point, be living on your savings and likely have less budget to treat several random people to food for days at a time. Maybe you have just outgrown the practice of all your son's or daughter's friends to stay for long periods and having them reciprocate by buying a fish and chips occasionally. At some point, your children will start having children. Do you want all your son's adult friends staying in the house if your grandkids are there? I think you will find you do not. So maybe now is the time you start that shift.

I see that an underlying issue is your worry that your dd's bf is a bit controlling and that if you set boundaries she may cut you off and end up in a situation where she is unable to leave him if she wants to. That is a valid worry but I don't think allowing them to overstep your boundaries is helpful. It just communicates that what he's doing is ok. I think you can, in general terms, tell your daughter that you are always here if she needs you, hint hint. And, separately, that you are allowed to have boundaries where young men she is dating do not get to be rude to your husband, show up and stay as long as they want in your home, bring guests you didn't invite, or go into your private spaces and rummage among your things.

One way to think about it, is that you setting boundaries with the bf and his family is a way of modeling to your dd that it is normal and healthy to have boundaries and that maybe if he doesn't allow her to set boundaries (expects her to always cook, dominates her) then that is not a normal behavior on HIS part, not YOUR part.

Sorry my post is so long, hope it helps.

ThereIbledit · 23/01/2023 12:16

You really do need to be as honest as you can be with your daughter. You're not doing her or yourselves any favours if you lie.

Crybaby96 · 23/01/2023 12:17

Well you could say dh has already arranged for pets to go to kennels but what happens next time you're away? You have to have the conversation that you don't want anyone staying in your house when you aren't there.
Get an extra chubb lock fitted, get some kind of ring doorbell and see if he tries to get in despite you saying no. You can't relax when you're away wondering what is going on in your home.

KettrickenSmiled · 23/01/2023 12:18

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 12:12

Well ... I was trying to avoid the word 'class' and settled on British instead. And used 'chivalry' instead of manners. Because my husband isn't actually rude- he just looks rude out of his British context.

My DH is solidly middle class and no one in the UK would ever describe him as rude. He's kind, a brilliant dad and very very bright. If he was a pig-ignorant oaf, I wouldn't have married him. But the way my family behave is just not how he was raised. Mine are as if they've stepped out of a period drama on TV. DH is a normal British bloke.

Normal British blokes help with heavy bags, make sure elderly/kids are fed first at buffets, & generally don't sit around on their arses while everybody else does the work.

His class has got jack-all to do with anything.
He's just rude & lazy.

LAMPS1 · 23/01/2023 12:19

You need to help your daughter out here by correcting her thinking that your house is open to all and sundry to abuse your hospitality. She is clearly following your lead and it will end badly for her to allow this bf to take advantage of her kindness.
You help her by setting an example, which means you have to tell her the truth as you see it instead of encouraging her to be an enabler to this scoundrel.

At the moment, you are actually endorsing the idea that it’s ok for him to nose around your private space, to steal from you and it’s ok to treat your house as his own for himself and whoever he wants there with him. It’s ridiculous that you have allowed this. Being good hosts is one thing but this situation has crossed a line.
If she sides with him over you, at least it’s out in the open for her to think about and at the same time you are protecting your assets which presumably will be hers one day ….and well as showing her a good example at last.

“Daughter, thank you for booking a break away but your suggestion that bf uses our home as his own while we are away and also his own admission to us that he feels our home is his to use as a base, has made us realise that we must let you know how we feel. Our discomfort over the long Christmas period when he invited his parents to holiday here and wanted to prolong the stay, was, in retrospect, a step too far for us and caused us to think hard about everything. We simply cannot turn a blind eye to what has happened with past incidents and we are uncomfortable allowing him to ingratiate himself so eagerly into our home as if it is his own. It’s not appropriate at all and we would like to take a step back now. While we love you as much as we ever did, we do hope that you will also be very cautious going forward with him. We can talk more about this if you wish but for now, bf won’t be here with the dogs while we are away together. We will let him know with a quick message that we have made other arrangements for the dogs. Please know that we are always here for you”

FictionalCharacter · 23/01/2023 12:19

I just read all your replies and updates on the previous thread.
OH MY GOOD GOD HE’S WALKING ALL OVER YOU. PLEASE PUT A STOP TO THIS.
You didn’t disclose that the guests were his parents until half way through the thread. You made it look like the problem was just ordinary guests overstaying, not horribly behaved guests THAT HE INVITED NOT YOU taking over your home. You seemed embarrassed to disclose what was going on.
You sounded so timid in that thread, but you said “next year - boundaries”. Yet here you are again. Frightened to have control over your own life and your own home.
Keep him away from your home whatever it takes. Take a deep breath and get over your fear. He’s intending to use your home as his second home and dominate you. He’s succeeding. This will be disastrous for you and your daughter if you don’t step up.

euff · 23/01/2023 12:23

A pp mentioned she might want time away from him and I read that and thought good point then I thought is there any chance she wants to talk to you about marriage / pregnancy?

I would consider the security cameras pp's have advised whether or not you decided to let him stay.

The thoughts of him eyeing up future inheritance/ your home are quite concerning not just for your DD's future but for your old age too.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 23/01/2023 12:23

I'd tell her that youd prefer a professional dog sitter as its fully insured

I know you invite people to yours. But that's not the same as her being able to invite people to yours. It's not her house. I think it's possible to have a conversation with her along the lines of you support her relationship but don't feel comfortable with someone who you're not personally close to staying over

wednesdaynamesep · 23/01/2023 12:25

"sorry your Dh has given you such a dim view of the UK"

Um, no. Sorry. I've lived here for over twenty years, post-grad education etc. I don't hang around with lazy rude pig-ignorant sexist pigs. But there isn't a man I've met here who comes even close to behaving like the men in my country when it comes to chivalry. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing because I don't quite know how to teach my son he should stand up when a woman walks into a room either. How do I justify that?

I was focussing on the bits that attract negative attention when my DH is in my country.

The other side is that my husband does do a lot of other things men in my country don't do. He'll cook - and does, for my family.

He is very hands on with our children, helping with the rubbish tasks and the fun stuff.

And he will help with housework, which no man in my family would ever do.

So he draws respect too. And I'd rather have all of that than a drink poured for me in the evening.

But the bits he doesn't get right ... chivalry, for lack of a better word ...is obvious when in my country and with my family. He has good manners, but not gendered manners.

Caiti19 · 23/01/2023 12:25

Your dynamic with your daughter is not healthy. This is not a "keep the peace" situation.

  1. Tell her you have found a sitter for the dogs, thanks anyway. If she then pipes up to say he wants to stay anyway, you say......
  2. Actually, we're not comfortable with him staying here when we are not here - this is based on previous experience with him. If she argues, you say....
  3. It's not something we are willing to debate. We've made up our mind on this topic. Of course, if you would prefer to use the weekend away yourself, I understand.
  4. ADD A CHUBB LOCK TO THE DOORS

My Mother never passed any remark when I dated assholes. She was in the "she'll realise it in her own time" camp. If I had suggested one of those assholes consider her home as "one of his bases", she'd have told me no way in hell! There's a difference between your daughter doing her thing out there in the world, and her bringing her thing to take over your house - the latter is abusive and needs to be stopped, regardless of your daughter's reaction. As her parents, you do not want to send her the message that this assumption is healthy or normal.

RampantIvy · 23/01/2023 12:25

We wish we could tell dd how we but she would side with him or be hurt . It is such a shame as we will look the bad guys here .

I am concerned that your relationship with your DD is so fragile that you can’t tell her it’s just not happening. You absolutely need to be firm, and I think the insurance aspect will win it for you. And get the dogs in to kennels then
tell her there is no need for dog sitting or house sitting.
I agree that you need a video camera installed.

And if you can’t stand up to your daughter you stay at home.

I would be worried that she has had an extra key cut for him or will lend him hers, and I aslo agree this trip is a way of getting you out of the house.

We are scared to tell he because she will not see what we have seen. He stole from a shop when we were with him and she denies it

Stop being such a pushover. Have you never said no to your DD, ever?

Ultravox · 23/01/2023 12:27

I’d be tempted to have a fake “lost all your money in a cryptocurrency” scam to get rid of this bloke. You won’t see him for dust if he thinks there’s no money and his holiday home has to be sold.

RaspberryCaner · 23/01/2023 12:29

OP, this is going to sound slightly brutal but think about what you're modelling to your DD here and how she's replicating that in her relationship:

She does all the cooking even when you ask them both to cook, because he doesn't want to
She brings him a cup of tea every morning, he never reciprocates
He dumps his washing by your washing machine, she does it for him
She buys you all drinks at the pub, but he never puts his hand in his pocket
Etc...etc...

You are potentially mistaking her being OK with/not noticing his bad behaviour with her actually being unable to call him out on it because she doesn't want to say no to him.

And why is that a surprise? Because here you are -

Unable to tell unwanted guests to leave your house for fear of upsetting them
Unable to tell your DD her boyfriend can't have your house for the weekend for fear of upsetting her
Continuing to do many things you don't want to, because you're afraid of upsetting people

Do you see the connection here?

Demonstrate to your DD that saying No is OK! Tell her no, and the reason is you don't want to, and that's good enough.

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