Tories aren’t even bothering to hide their NHS privatisation plan anymore

[Letshaveablackcelebration2022]

I think it was possible Noam Chomsky who said that the route to all privatisation of services was that first they run it totally into the ground and then they offer up a private model as a solution . It’s actually tedious in its predictability. Pillaging everything good from the country- Royal Mail, water, utilities, rail network, even housing via private landlords - everything to make profit.

And of course as predicted, the NHS was the final prize.

There was an article in the Independent, I think, by medics from Italy, Spain and Canada. Its not just the UK health system that is crashing.

Brits are shocking at admin/logistics/organisation behaviour. Yes the NHS is underfunded but also it's shambolic and the tories are not in it to make it better.

Brits are shocking at admin/logistics/organisation behaviour.

I wouldn’t say this of everyone. Obviously some companies are up to speed.

The hard part with the NHS is the size and older IT

Maybe some embedded people / organisational issues adding to it

@Cuppasoupmonster

I am interested what chronic physical or mental health conditions you manage?

As you seem quite certain you are able to speak with critical authority about those who, in your eyes, don't take 'responsibility' for things like obesity or depression.

I'm assuming then that you used to struggle have a BMI over 35 (ie, not just a few extra pounds) and had depression yourself and now feel smug and disdainful towards those who haven't managed to recover?

Because you could do it you assume everyone else is just lazy or not trying hard enough right?

Remember not everyone has the same advantages and resources available and that's why some people will continue to struggle...

I have a different view on that. My son is going inter-railing this summer and he's going to get a job to pay for the cost once his uni term finishes.

Why should the tax payer fund his jaunt round Europe when, as this thread shows, there's far more pressing needs? These things are not free, someone has to pay for them.

Why should the tax payer fund his jaunt round Europe when, as this thread shows, there's far more pressing needs? These things are not free, someone has to pay for them.

The EU pays for them.

Happy to discuss.

Im type 1 diabetic, not easy but I work hard to manage it and have never needed A&E or emergency medicine. Just my routine appointments. I have type 1 family and friends who are in and out of A&E like a revolving door because they can’t be bothered to manage it properly.

Mentally I have OCD, diagnosed 4 years ago. I had 6 weeks of treatment, and have managed it myself ever since using the techniques they taught me. I know what makes it worse and just work to avoid those things. If I’m having a bad day then it’s time to get some fresh air and remember what I was taught in therapy. It’s probably 2% of the issue now than it was, and all being well I can keep it that way.

Equally I have family and friends who have had their treatment and basically disregard everything they’re told in favour of flopping about in bed with the curtains drawn. Back and forth expecting different types of therapy, different meds etc when they hardly leave the house and don’t take the advice they’re given anyway. They’ve been stuck in a cycle of feeling sorry for themselves and making it everyone else’s problem for years. It’s maddening.

"Tories aren’t even bothering to hide their NHS privatisation plan anymore"
Neither are Labour.

Starmer:
2020 - leadership race - makes pledge to end outsourcing in our NHS.
July 2022 - scraps pledge to end NHS private sector outsourcing.
January 2023 - Announces plans to use private sector at 130% of pre-pandemic levels.

Labour have a history of expanding private sector involvement in health although they don't use the term "privatisation". They embraced PFI across the NHS, and in 2006 they "re-organised" NHS dentristy - which immediately led to over 1000 dentists stopping NHS treatment and becoming private only - ie. they were privatised.

Are people really this dim? Where the hell do you think the EU gets its money?

"There was an article in the Independent, I think, by medics from Italy, Spain and Canada. Its not just the UK health system that is crashing."

It is not a race to see which system will crash first - but if it was, the UK is far ahead of every other developed country in terms of being about to crash and burn. All countries are experiencing strain on their healthcare and social service provision, but nowhere has people dying in ambulances in hospital car parks, or millions waiting for hospital treatment. There would be uproar and ministers would be kicked out on their arse.

In the UK, the man responsible for starting the rot with his hopeless reforms, Lansley, now sits in the House of Lords. The longest-serving Health Secretary, Hunt, now controls the government's purse strings and pretends that the crisis is the fault of everyone else but him, Hancock is now a C-List celebrity and Javid is seriously suggesting that healthcare be rationed by price. What a bunch of incompetents.

Are people really this dim? Where the hell do you think the EU gets its money?

I was tempted to write the same as you after their response to my post. But I wasn't sure I'd misinterpreted what they were trying to say as I'm sure they know the member countries fund the EU.

Labour have been clear on this but pp seem convinced the Tories are hiding it

Labour have also been key in bringing in the private sector with public services, starting with Blair in the 90s.

It's about time privatisation stopped being a dirty word. Thank goodness MPs have finally stopped being so sentimental about our shoddy health service. It's the worst health service in the developed world. The model worked when what the NHS offered was very limited but with an aging population and so many more treatments available, a state funded system is never going to work. The NHS needs to go.

Hear hear.

Yes and 3000 dentists left the UK because the govt couldn't agree equivalence of their qualifications after Brexit.

In 2006 it was at least possible to get an NHS dentist in Cornwall.. now it is impossible, there are none.

I ve asked this before, without PFI where would the money have come from for Hospitals? or would you have preferred to not have built them?

1m additional people have signed up for PHI in 2022, where do you think the Spire etc will get additional staff from to meet this new demand?

This is how healthcare will look going fwd, a buoyant private HC system and a run down, poorly equipped and staffed social/charity system for anyone who can't afford PHI.

tbh this will happen under Lab or Tory, UK is too poor now, per capita we are a second rate country.

What do you propose as an alternative?

Haveagentlechristmas
I read yesterday that for every European citizen who reaches 18, they give them a free interrailing pass to see all of Europe for free

I think you must have misread the article - this is from 2022;

The European Commission has opened applications for free DiscoverEU passes, which will allow 70,000 18-year-olds to explore Europe by train... Tickets are proportionally allocated to member states based on population size...
citizens from Iceland, Liechtenstein, North Macedonia, Norway, Serbia, and Turkey will also be eligible to take advantage of the scheme.

In 2017, MEPs approved a motion to give all Europeans free Interrail passes on their 18th birthday but this was rejected by the European Commission on the grounds that the estimated €1.6 billion price tag was too high.
The DiscoverEU programme is considered a political compromise between the institutions.

www.euractiv.com/section/railways/news/eu-invites-young-people-to-apply-for-free-interrail-passes/

The NHS was a wonderful thing at its inception, but times have changed; people are living longer, increase in population, treatments are far better and far more expensive. It really does have to change from the roots. I have experience of the NHS and French Health Service and the French Health Service is far superior in every way. Yes a bit more expensive, in that we pay 22% as NI contriubtions and have a top up insurance that costs 56 Euros a month, but that covers everything, including dentist and optician, also alternative treatments. A friend recently had to have a hip replacement; from going to see the Dr, to having the hip replacement and being home, at total of six weeks. Another friend a knee replacement four weeks. A friend who was diagnosed with breast cancer started radiotherapy within a week; a taxi comes and picks her up, she is driven to the hospital of her choice for her treatment and the taxi drive waits and brings her home. No problem seeing a Dr face to face, without and appointment. Prescriptions next to nothing compared to the UK. Anyone that is on benefits does not pay top up insurance, as it is covered by the State.

@CocoFifi blimey, what luxury compared to the shit show we have over here, we really have dropped down the ranks....and falling😖

The other issue with the UK is that I think you would just be deferring the problem. We don't actually have enough people working or contributing to potentially do a system where some pay and the State provides; we have an ageing population, many early retirees and a lot of people on benefits even if they are in work.

The NHS needs to look at what it provides. Then look at separate payment and what people might pay for.

How is it a ‘bit more expensive’ but this superior to NHS?

Is it inefficiency here? Or do you mean it’s a bit more expensive for you and others are paying more

Or maybe the insurance part

pissssedofff
Yes and 3000 dentists left the UK because the govt couldn't agree equivalence of their qualifications after Brexit

Are you sure? This article suggests that 3,000 dentists have left the NHS since the pandemic - they can't all be EU dentists;

dentistry.co.uk/2022/09/12/give-up-looking-for-an-appointment-investigation-reveals-ongoing-crisis-within-nhs-dentistry/

the minister who oversaw the vaccine mandate which exacerbated the problems in social care with 40,000 care workers leaving now wants to charge for GPs and A&E The fucking cheek of it.

12000 dentists in UK, 20% are EU, they lost equivalence and vice versa UK students training in EU.

Yes i was incorrect in left nhs, apologises but its still a shortfall of 2600 dentists, for what?

I couldn't check the BDA site as its down atm.