To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

It is indeed right to discuss them together, because not doing that creates an illusion that trans is never really about sexual fetishism, or that it doesn't matter if it is, and that's not right either.

We just can't afford to ignore these other kinds of trans and not talk about them all together fear it might colour people's view of transpeople. We can only talk honestly about te different kinds and not exaggerate and put people right when it colours their view and the colour is wrong.

Yes. It's not something women and girls can afford to ignore just because trans people and their advocates don't like the facts.

Well I agree it's not transphobic but then I haven't nominated myself as arbiter of what is, my point is that acceptance without exception will always result in someone calling you transphobic.

I don't understand the last sentence of your post.

I hear you.

And (I'll brace myself for the inevitable told you so) since we are talking colouring views, I was a victim of abuse too. A long time ago now, but I think it;s what makes me instantly kick off against what I perceive to be unkind, unfair, nasty, injust etc - and that probably colours my views.

Their intention.

There is a big difference between the twitter nutters and a trans person who just wants to live their life.

www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19509343.outcry-plan-educate-bigoted-rape-survivors-trans-rights/

This is the male tw (no GRC, simply a male who claims womanhood) who runs the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre.

This is the male TW who told women who asked for single sex services within the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre to "reframe your trauma".

Reframe your goddamned trauma.

Rape victims. Reframing their trauma to allow TW to be part of their group therapy. Stop crying, you silly woman, reframe your trauma so you don't upset the TW who wants to listen to your pain.

I think you've got the wrong target.

@Ereshkigalangcleg - if even you and I can find common ground and peace, then maybe theres hope yet...🌺

Did you report the post you felt was transphobic? Was it deleted?

Or have you used your own check list for what you think is transphobic to call it transphobic?

I think that any person who is denying a group of people are trans despite the representative groups saying that that group IS trans, is clearly transphobic because they are gatekeeping who is and isn’t trans.

I then think it is quite legitimate to question your own assertion that a post was transphobic because they mentioned sex fetishes.

There seems to be a disconnect here.

As you’ve not answered why my original post you called transphobic is transphobic setting out the VARIOUS reasons for trans identity, I’ll ask you why a paraphillia detailed in the psychological bible of DSM5 is transphobic? Or is it just the case that “transphobic” “TERF”😂 are now completely meaningless words, or if they have a meaning they simply mean the accused has not been brainwashed into a misogynistic ideology.

There is a big difference between the twitter nutters and a trans person who just wants to live their life.

The "Twitter nutters" are real male people who use female spaces against the wishes of women and girls, even though some of them hate women who won't do as they are told and pose a not inconsiderable risk to our safety.

The "trans person wanting to live their life" is nevertheless violating women's boundaries and disrespecting women if that person uses female spaces. It's selfish, thoughtless behaviour.

But you agree that that trans person, by just wanting to live their life, might want access to women's spaces and you have said you're not ok with that. Therefore you are you not just as bad as all these awful posters you're calling transphobic?

Or indeed the Rape Crisis Service in Sussex which provides a mixed sex women's group, a men's group and a specialised group for trans and non binary people but refuses to provide one additional single sex group for women who require a single sex group due to trauma response and has utterly slandered the woman who requested such a service. The people defending this decision have to rely on lies because even they see the bad optics in saying 'womem should not be allowed single sex services in any situation'. There (as in the Lothians) women are self excluding from the services they need.

Does the word "transphobic" actually MEAN anything any more? I'd expect it to be used for acts of violence and rightly so - by acts of violence I mean actual violence such as punching, kicking, spitting, swearing, etc.

But now it is simply used in response to a woman saying "no" and therefore that seems to me to be a bit of an overreach.

It devalues what the word means. If someone yells "transphobic" now, I pretty much just assume it's one of us meanie wimminz getting uppity again. I don't even bother looking.

what's the fable called? The boy who cried "wolf"?

Reframe your goddamned trauma.

Rape victims. Reframing their trauma to allow TW to be part of their group therapy. Stop crying, you silly woman, reframe your trauma so you don't upset the TW who wants to listen to your pain.

This is one of the most powerful articles I've read on this.

https://medium.com/@kittyitt*/on-hurting-trans-women-a4a0ef1ef8d4

Trans ideology said: these male people are not men. They are just like you. If you think of or treat these people as men (or male), you are actively contributing to the oppression, suicide, and murder of the most vulnerable women alive, trans women. By the way, this includes thinking of any of their (male-patterned) behavior as male, being uncomfortable in any way, or not immediately and enthusiastically including them in your lesbian sexuality. I took it to heart, and that’s how I ended up in that hot car, stroking my trans girlfriend’s long hair, knowing that this couldn’t be a truly abusive situation, because the power dynamics between a dfab trans person and a trans woman wouldn’t allow it.

I hurt trans women. I hurt trans women when I name them as male people. I hurt trans women when I talk about the trans women who abused me. I hurt trans women when I talk about how the ideology of trans activism is fundamentally woman-hating. I hurt trans women when I talk about how male people identifying as lesbians is inherently lesbian-hating. I hurt trans women when I talk about the trans women who rape and murder. I hurt trans women when I won’t change my mind. I hurt trans women when I won’t shut my mouth about how trans women hurt me. I hurt trans women. I do.

But what about my pain? What about female pain? Can you answer? Did you hear me? Hello?

Don't you know that everything is transphobic?

wingsoverscotland.com/everything-is-transphobic/

I learned earlier you can just be not transphobic if you say you're not, so that must go all ways.

Are you are saying that because we say it is not transphobic, we are being dishonest about it being not transphobic?

Not that your claim that it is transphobic is wrong?

And part of that claim from
you relates to your belief that a group of trans people are not trans people in your opinion, and to discuss them in context is transphobic? Yet there is very easy to find evidence that they most definitely are trans if they claim they are.

Here is the umbrella by the way. Well one version.

womenspeakscotland.com/2021/06/23/the-trans-umbrella-is-older-than-you-think/

Of course I'm against anyone except biological women in rape groups.

Oh good!

But sadly there is no "of course" about it. There's a crowdfunded legal case which will go to court early this year (I hope!) for a rape survivor who was told she must accept a transwoman in her rape support group, or go without. The Sussex Survivors Network offers a group for men, a group for LGBT, and a group for women that includes transwomen. But no group for just biological women.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4539958-big-update-on-rape-crisis-legal-challenge

Is that the bar now? Whether Becky at mumsnet thinks it is? And if her views don't align with me?

I'm not addressing your second post. It's getting really tiresome to have 2/3 responses from you on every post with"are you saying? is this what you're saying?" Take from my posts what you will, like it, don't like it, agree with it, don't, but please stop with that

But that's exactly why the words 'trans' and 'transgender' started to be used instead of the earlier 'transvestite' and 'transsexual' which made that distinction. TRAs wanted there to be no discernable difference between people who cross-dressed for sexual gratification and those who made a physical transition to change their appearance.

It's all in this submission to parliament in 2007 by Press for Change (Christine Burns, Stephen Whittle).

publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmpublic/criminal/memos/ucm39102.htm

Transgender is an umbrella term, coined in America, used to include people whose lifestyles appear to conflict with the gender norms of society.

...'trans people' ... has become the term of normal use since the coining of it by Press for Change for their 1996 mission statement: "Seeking respect and equality for ALL trans people". People who identify as transsexual are a small part of this spectrum and may or may not have had medical treatment to alter their physical appearance.

Surely you're not arguing that transgender people (transvestites as well as transsexuals) shouldn't want what they say they want? That does sound a bit transphobic.

You cannot expect a law that undermines our whole cultural understanding and redefines what it is to be female, and thus obliterates all [yes all] of our sex based rights will be blindly passed through without some women saying 'no'.

The press already report male sex offenders and rapists as 'she'.

The judges often let male sex offenders go, as the alternative would be to imprison them, and if they came to court named 'Juliette' the judge knows they will be put into a female prison and it's better to have them on the outside than locked up with women.

It is the whole 'treating them as women' thing when they pose risk factors as men that is so warped. Not that they are trans, but they are men.

The sooner people get their head around that the better. It undermines us all, whether we agree or not.

Bloody hell.

No it doesn't.

No

I think your kicking off is biased. What is happening to women in the name of transright is abusive and unkind and downright nasty. Media reports on this have largely centred the TW and dismissed harm to women.

'Brainwashed' the idea that anyone who doesn't agree qith you doesn't have a thought of their own. Odd approach really, but then I don't expect much more from someone who wrote what you did.