To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

It's well known that cross dressing is a male sexual fetish. The lines have been blurred so much that when people talk about "trans women" they are often including cross dressing men. So the research into autogynephilia, a scientific exploration of this tendency, is one of the critical factors in why women need our spaces to be female only, for our privacy and dignity.

The push for all women to accept that a man is a 'trans woman' if he says he is. With an utter disregard for how women feel. This is in my Uni toilets.

No women is allowed to question now. Allowed a female space. Can question a man. It is not just about the bigger issues - prisons, rape centres. This is about the every day erosion of our rights and safe spaces. We have boundaries for a reason.

Yes, it is another good example for why people stopped bothering to debate on trans issues.

Me-railers aside, this is something women need to know, to understand and appreciate the implications not only for themselves but for any trans family and friends.

YY. Sometimes there are good opportunities to explore the issues to a new audience, which is why I post on these threads.

I'm not the one making things up about other posters Vino.

Accusing them of transphobia when there's been none most certainly is!

And I was the one who said half a brain ✋ and 100% stand by that.

Perhaps it is me who has mixed up my posters, I shall look back through the thread. I seem to remember a conversation where, in light of the concern about terminology used towards gender critical posters, I raised the way other posters are treated, and this was mocked.

It probably isn't proportionate at this point, but then I get so many accusations (the latest that I am a prolific poster that I'm not) flung my way I'm over defensive

I found that post transphobic. I don't really care what you think.

💯 great post. You've summed up my feelings on the GRA exactly.

I just used your actual words pal.

then perhaps the debate should be clearer in who we are referring to, and stories of men dressed up in womens clothes should not be in the same debate as prisons/single sex spaces/trans as a whole.

I didn't say that. I just agreed with another poster.

So I ask again. If you agree with single sex spaces. What is your answer. How do we keep women safe and trans women happy without letting them use single sex spaces that are for women?

No, I said the story was nonsense, not that concern towards primary school children is.
I was referring to people who exploit AGP as a strategy to excuse transphobia. Neither of those are anything like what you said. Pal.

Not to you, no.

I've seen you on the recent threads about the fetish pups in IKEA and the bloke dressed in a school girl outfit outside a school and your opinions on those have told me all I need to know.

To any lurkers still struggling through the thread, do you really think lots of (mostly) mums have suddenly turned into rampant bigots, or maybe there might just be something to the arguments?

Do your own research, read stuff from both sides, think about who is telling you something and why.
Who benefits (and why is it never women and children).
What do they get out of it, who wins in each scenario.

Imagine yourself vulnerable and not able to request female help without the possibility of a transwomen turning up instead.
Even if you don't care for yourself, think about children and elderly women.
Don't give consent for others even if you don't think it will affect you.
Life is long and you never know when you, your daughter, your mum might be the incapacitated person that has no choice about who you accept care from.
Do you really want them to be called transphobic if they don't want a male person? Or to just suffer through it to validate someone else?

This is one long slippery slope heading to women having less rights over their own spaces and bodies.

Pass. As I said earlier, if I had the answer to that, if anyone did, we wouldn't be in this position.

I'm not sure it should be discussed in general discussion in with trans issues though.

Of course it should, it is one important aspect of those issues and how they affect women. The lack of clarity in what "trans" means, who is and who isn't trans, is part of the problem. Which is why women here are asking you to explain who you mean by "trans" and who you don't mean. You might not include sexual fetishists but Stonewall and the law do.

So, I have asked more than once. Can you link us up to these sites where you can debate with people who disagree with you on trans issues.?

I am genuinely interested where you think this can be debated.

So what are you arguing for?

then perhaps the debate should be clearer in who we are referring to, and stories of men dressed up in womens clothes should not be in the same debate as prisons/single sex spaces/trans as a whole.

No. They fully belong in this debate, for the reasons I carefully laid out. Women should be able to expect better when they are undressed and vulnerable than being used as props for males to get sexual gratification via their cross dressing fetish. Any man in a woman's space is a boundary violator, and that is a red flag.

Of course it should, it is one important aspect of those issues and how they affect women. The lack of clarity in what "trans" means, who is and who isn't trans, is part of the problem. Which is why women here are asking you to explain who you mean by "trans" and who you don't mean. You might not include sexual fetishists but Stonewall and the law do.

Exactly.

That's not me. I havent been on anything about IKEA or blokes at schools.

Posters are welcome to advance search my threads.

I suggest you stop lying, making things up to try and discredit me to other posters or I will be emailing MN for advice on this (who will of course be able to see where Ive been).

What is anyone arguing for? Or are you suggesting every poster has the answer except me?

But you know that discussing cross dressing /sexual gratification in the same discussion as trans is going to colour peoples' view on transpeople and that is not right.

The story is not nonsense. It was in the papers yesterday.

I'm not going to link to other discussion sites and discuss the pros and cons with you. If you want to debate elsewhere I'm sure you can find them.

Hence OP's point about media hype.

Cause the media are really well known for sticking to the facts.