To find media discussion about trans issues far overstated compared to the actual seriousness of the issue?

[BarmyBrunhilde]

Full disclosure, I happily accept most trans people I've met as their transitioned gender which I know puts me at odds with most people on MN. But as a feminist and a lefty, even if one views trans women as men which I don't, in terms of political priorities it ranks so list on my list of concerns. I assume that applies to most people too (trans people included!).

What someone has listed on their birth certificate has no impact on my life, and surely minimal impact on most women's lives? Imo we should be focusing on cost of living crisis, housing, properly funding women's services including rape crisis services, funding childcare, sorting out the health service and bloody schools! Gender recognition comes way below those for me (even though I'm broadly supportive with some checks in place).

I know gender criticals won't agree with me, and maybe some trans people who feel very strongly, but I do feel there's a silent majority of us who just aren't that fussed?

Once GRCs are handed out to anyone asking, and take precedence over biological sex, women’s rights are over.

This. I don't understand why people are so naive and obtuse.

Have a read through the feminist boards and a look at the language used to describe trans people. Caliing them "delusional, attention seeking" etc strips them of their identity - less than 24 hours ago someone proudly said it was due to shit parenting that a child is trans.
However there is far worse than that still present on here.

Perhaps you could have a look at some of the way the posters on the feminist boards post to people who don't agree with them. Dehumanising indeed.

Already I can think of a list of extremely misogynistic males who have a bit of paper from a panel lying about their sex, and who I'm expected to think of as women in the same way I am. Fuck that.

And your being here means it is not an echo chamber….

It is not that hard.

Behave.
If the boards had the power to ban anyone who didn't confirm, we'd be long gone!

Spot on. So it's NOT an echo chamber.

It is, because you feel like that. The only thing keeping us here is MN. The boards themselves would like to be an echo chamber. So for all intents and purposes it is.
Can we move on from this before I as the resident 'derailer' am accused of that?

But I'm afraid you don't get to define other people.

Well in a way we do. Because nothing Rachel Dolezal can say will make me believe she is black, nothing Eddie Izzard can say will make me believe he is a woman and with every word you utter in this thread I do not believe you to be a feminist.

You do not get to define how I see people. How you feel about your identity and how you define yourself is irrelevant to my perception.

Schrodinger's Echo Chamber.

I don’t need to ‘behave.’

Some posters use these terms as emotional manipulation to either shut down discussion or to attempt to shame those in the discussion.

It is one of the tactics so often used.

Just like dehumanising people using ‘gender criticals’ and using ‘anti-trans’ to frame anything discussed as being hateful.

SweetSenorita
Biological sex IS black and white. Binary. You are female. Or you are male. One or the bloody other. Determined at conception. Not open to change.

It's simple really.

Granted.

But that doesn't solve the issue, does it?

Well it should. It should be the end of it. Why are we writing into law something that is fundamentally untrue.

Its also ironic to claim its us who want other posters gone or want an echo chamber, when we are the ones told we are not welcome to post in Feminist Chat!

less than 24 hours ago someone proudly said it was due to shit parenting that a child is trans.

And did you report? I report posts saying rude things about parents of children with ASCs, and usually they get deleted.

Or isn't that quite what was said? As I don't know which post you mean.

well, we are subjected to numerous personal and insulting attacks about our intentions, our IQ, our backgrounds, so I guess swings and roundabouts.

Why has this interesting and important discussion been turned to focus on just one poster and their refusal to engage in a discussion? It's not achieving anything.

They don't want to discuss. Fair enough.

I'd much rather look at the impacts on self ID on various other protected groups, like the PP who is Muslim.

Then there's the disabled women requiring intimate care, who are speaking up on Twitter. I'll link to one once I find her.

Yeah, I regularly make things up to be offended about.

Re - 'which' post - it only takes a read of the feminist boards to find this is one of many.

Btw for all those saying that the Haldene ruling means declared gender over rules natal sex you are correct in all things that affect women.

However when it comes to titles being passed down, including the clan system in Scotland that affect men, miraculously it is birth sex that's taken. No trans identifying women CANNOT inherit titles even though evidently they are men.

So very telling.

Because, as per usual, everyone has chosen to address me, and then when the derail has happened, blame me. Tedious old story.

I never said I didnt want to discuss. I said I didn't want to define gender for another poster's judgement because I've been daft enough to attempt that on these boards before. That's all.

Well, I don't think that's quite true. All feminists may not share opinions about all things, but there is a core belief - that women have a material reality and several physical features in common that have implications for their lives - that is essential to feminism. Otherwise, there's no point.

I'd be interested to know what I've said that makes me not feminist.

That is the twisting of feminism to suit an agenda though.

But then I believe men can be feminists so I'll be right out of favour.

twitter.com/hen10freeman/status/1603022204467351556?s=20&t=rQqzi_hgUgTM0aZ6i4_IAg

Henrietta Freeman

Not by me, b ut then I'm not a proper feminist so I don't know if I'd be allowed in either.

Yeah, I regularly make things up to be offended about.

But did you report, and was it deleted? MN has a tight moderation policy on transphobia as it does on disablism.

If you didn't report it, and if I can't even guess which posts you're talking about though I read FWR, that says to me you reading transphobia into things that aren't.

And yet, posters who come to discuss without using terms mean to shame such as ‘echo chamber’, ‘anti-trans’ and ‘gender criticals’ and ‘far right wing’ and a whole slew of terms that are mean to shame others, actually do have discussions. Even ones with disagreements.

Yes. Posters who come and use that language and think that anyone should positively engage with them are lacking in awareness of how dialogue happens.

Where else do they go if they want to debate by the way? Can you tell us where debates are happening about the conflicts where women’s rights and protections have been deprioritized to allow males to have access to them?