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Original poster

To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

231 replies

janef001 · 20/01/2023 19:22

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

OP posts:
SavoirFlair · 20/01/2023 19:25

Wow

Keyansier · 20/01/2023 19:26

I haven't heard about this but I'm learning to sit on my fingers until I know more about things rather than leaving comments straight away. Are you saying that in Canada, if someone says they are depressed and want to die, they may be able to get help with assisted suicide? If that's the case, that doesn't initially sit right with me. At all.

Theunamedcat · 20/01/2023 19:27

Keyansier · 20/01/2023 19:26

I haven't heard about this but I'm learning to sit on my fingers until I know more about things rather than leaving comments straight away. Are you saying that in Canada, if someone says they are depressed and want to die, they may be able to get help with assisted suicide? If that's the case, that doesn't initially sit right with me. At all.

Same

Tempone · 20/01/2023 19:28

Place marking interesting discussion. Not sure but my gut thinks its wrong, interested in others views.

Ember90 · 20/01/2023 19:29

Do you have any sources you can share OP? I’m another person who doesn’t want to comment without knowing the facts

Fladdermus · 20/01/2023 19:29

So helping ill people to kill themselves should be a valid alternative to actually giving them the treatment they need. That's all kinds of fucked up.

Pollyumbrella · 20/01/2023 19:30

Wow indeed

Namechangerr1 · 20/01/2023 19:33

I get the controversy but I do think it's fair. Personally I believe a person has a right to end their life at any point and for whatever reason, it's just so unfortunate that for the most part, people have to resort to painful and unreliable methods rather than being able to access a peaceful and dignified passing. Personally I welcome Canada's decision however I very much doubt the application process will be easy, and I imagine it's only for residents of the country.

Keyansier · 20/01/2023 19:35

Fladdermus · 20/01/2023 19:29

So helping ill people to kill themselves should be a valid alternative to actually giving them the treatment they need. That's all kinds of fucked up.

Agreed. And OP also mentioned bipolar, which of what little I understand is fluctuating moods. So what if a person with this agreed to it during a low point and once the fatal injection(?) had been given, they suddenly went on a high and decided that they had changed their mind and loved life and wanted to be alive?

DownInTheDumpster · 20/01/2023 19:36

I agree OP.
They would never let someone in the midst of a crisis make that decision of course, eg someone under section. Arguably there will be people who’s mental health is too poor to ever consent who will be stuck in the middle. However I agree as someone whose friend died by suicide who had a long history of depression that was treatment resistant. I felt huge grief when they died but also a sense of peace as this is what they wanted.
They would have chosen this on a good day when as well as they could be and 100% with capacity and it would have been a far more dignified end to their life.

glasshole · 20/01/2023 19:38

As a bipolar person I can confirm that if I enter into a contract when manic then I can argue it and often it can be overturned. Because I'm NOT in my right mind. I also thought it was good fun to go skinny dippng into shark infested waters at one point while on holiday.... at the time, I genuinely thought it was great, floating on my back shouting " I'm shark bait " . But when I crashed after I was dragged out and hospitalised I realised it WASN'T a good idea and I'd risked the lives of the people that had waded in to save me.

The problem with MAID is that it's not the solution for mental health issues. There is a story of a trans person that's hoping to end their life through MAID. Because they didn't get the mental health support they needed at the very beginning. They were instead celebrated as trans instead of treated for dysphoria. Then they had surgeries. They were butchered and are living with the very permanent consequences when in reality they only needed therapy to come to terms with their own body. It's an absolute travesty. They tried to fix them, now this is another fix. A final fix. And it's very worrying when mental health issues are reason enough to end your life.

CoalCraft · 20/01/2023 19:38

This came to my attention when a Canadian veteran applied for a wheelchair lift to be fitted to her home. She was offered assisted dying instead. Understandably, she was furious.

www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2022/12/03/canada-offered-to-help-euthanize-christine-gauthier/amp/

I'm not sure where I stand on the issue personally. In an ideal world I do believe someone should have the choice to die but they must be of sound mind when making that choice, and mental illness substantially muddies the waters. Besides that, it's easy to see how it could be abused.

CaveMum · 20/01/2023 19:39

The problems come when people are being offered it as a “solution” rather than something they have actively sought. I’d be horrified if I went to a therapist for severe depression and they suggested that taking my own life was an option to consider.

Policies like this always disproportionately affect the poor and most vulnerable in society.

This BBC article gives some background info: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-64004329

Confrontayshunme · 20/01/2023 19:39

I have a friend with extreme treatment resistant depression. She went overseas for ECT and ketamine and has been on virtually every type of medication. She has fought for 20+ years to be well harder than I have ever seen anyone fight to survive cancer or a terminal illness. She even had a hysterectomy because they said menopause might bring relief. Nothing has worked, and she will tell you that she wishes to fade away every minute she is awake. I have been depressed, but the idea that it might never ever fade is terrifying. It would hopefully be a very, very small number of cases, but I would hope only used as a last resort.

VestaTilley · 20/01/2023 19:42

It’s just awful, so immoral. You’re not in your right mind, how can it be moral or logical? There’ll be people who are pressured in to doing it. This is why it’s such a slippery slope.

glasshole · 20/01/2023 19:42

Confrontayshunme · 20/01/2023 19:39

I have a friend with extreme treatment resistant depression. She went overseas for ECT and ketamine and has been on virtually every type of medication. She has fought for 20+ years to be well harder than I have ever seen anyone fight to survive cancer or a terminal illness. She even had a hysterectomy because they said menopause might bring relief. Nothing has worked, and she will tell you that she wishes to fade away every minute she is awake. I have been depressed, but the idea that it might never ever fade is terrifying. It would hopefully be a very, very small number of cases, but I would hope only used as a last resort.

For me it's a massive concern about mentally Ill people feeling like a burden.Or in this day and age, just not being able to afford to live.

Keyansier · 20/01/2023 19:42

Do you know, the more I hear about Canada (which I originally thought seemed like a great country), it seems like its main mission these days is Not Like America. Similar to Scotland's main mission of Not Like England.

PoIIyPandemonium · 20/01/2023 19:43

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UthredofBattenberg · 20/01/2023 19:46

I seem to recall a case in Europe where a young woman chose to die by assisted suicide, fairly recently.

She had a complex mh history, difficult to treat and by her own account, lived in misery. She was competent enough to argue her case and win her right to die.

Surely the situation is not a matter of you have depression, yeah, kill yourself. Some people have long term conditions, conditions that do not respond well to therapy, medication, people living in hospital where they are 2 to 1 at all times due to their risk of self harm.

If they can competently prove they have had enough and don't want to live anymore, if they have the mental clarity to say they've had enough which is not a spur of the moment decision. Is that wrong?

I don't think people should be allowed to die on a whim, but I also think people should be able to choose (with clarity of mind) when they no longer wish to live.

PoIIyPandemonium · 20/01/2023 19:46

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CantPayMyGasBill · 20/01/2023 19:50

I heard they also want to extend this to under 18's as well.

x2boys · 20/01/2023 19:50

janef001 · 20/01/2023 19:22

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

Well yes from my experience o f when I was a mental health nurse working in acute mental health,if somebody is in an acute phase of their mental illness,then they can quite literally not in sound mind ,severe mental illness,as can be very debilitating and complex but they can often be controlled ,I would be really concerned about this tbh.

LakeTiticaca · 20/01/2023 19:51

I was discussing this with DP today. Some people suffer horrifically from mental illness for many years and suffer terrible misery. Why would it be wrong for them to be unable to access assisted dying but would be deemed acceptable for someone with terminal cancer?
That said, I'm very much on the fence regarding assisted dying, I think it could be very open to abuse x

Oysterbabe · 20/01/2023 19:54

I can see our government getting on board with this, would save money on treatment and financial support.