To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

[janef001]

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

How much confidence do you have in the current UK government? They weren't overly concerned about the impact of sending elderly people with Covid back into care homes, were they? How many died because of that?

I think it’s brilliant. I‘d love to tell the few people who know me that I‘ve had enough and be able to leave without the shock and shame of suicide. I‘d do it line a shot tbh.

I certainly do care about actual people and their suffering. I just don't believe that there is any solution to this that will work. So you then have to weigh up the small number of people who 1) are in great suffering, 2) are very unlikely to recover 3) want to die, 4) are genuinely incapable of committing suicide, 5) don't have any family member or friend willing to run the small legal risk of helping them (courts are sympathetic in those cases), and 6) can't afford the trip to Switzerland, bearing in mind that they will never need money again. And balance that number against what I suspect would be a large and ever growing number of people who will be pushed into euthanasia in the interests of others.

His is really concerning and shocking that this may be considered for children

treatment is often intense, long, not straight forward but many very unwell people take years with medication, often changes and years of talking therapies and support with every day skills, education until their lives improve

it’s so upsetting to think that some people (poor) won’t be considered worthy

What or where would be the shock and shame in your own suicide compared to doing exactly the same thing but with assistance? Genuine question. The result is the same. It's not the same when someone who is physically in excruciating daily pain and feel like they can't go on any more but do not have the physical strength, muscle or capability to do so themselves.

The difference is the rational decision made in the knowledge of others and accepted by others prior to the death.

www.tiktok.com/@drjesstaylor/video/7166980634919980293

Suicide is suicide is suicide. Whether "signed off" or not. The result is the same. IMO.

Disagree. Prescribed opiates for pain vs illegal heroin for pleasure. One is sanctioned by society, the other is a taboo and source of shame.

I think this solution should be the absolute last choice only if someone has a proven long history of mental illness and has exhausted all available treatments/therapies.

It should be up to the individual to decide whether their life is worth living, not casual bystanders who have never walked in their shoes. I speak as someone who has suffered mental illness their whole life.

As someone who has suffered from mental ill health almost my entire life OP I completely agree. Poor and unmanageable/untreatable mental health is an awful state to leave someone in and a person should be able to decide when enough is enough and have a dignified way out. As you say, poor mental health does not necessarily mean you lack capacity to make decisions.

I don't think that it should be presented as an option as an alternative to accessing appropriate treatment though.

I can't see how it's possible for the state to truly establish informed consent - too hard to know if someone is having an acute episode of their illness, if they're suffering social pressure.

I don't know enough about this to comment yet but my dad has bipolar disorder. I know that he would quite happily choose to die when he is in his low mood (has tried many times) so I know if this was an option available to him he would take it when depressed. However, when he is manic, there is no way he would agree to that as life is (his perception) great and wonderful and he's energetic and happy.

So I think a person considering this would need extensive, intensive therapy and would have to be completely mentally stable for a period of time. I believe we all have the right to end our life when we choose, for whichever reason. But we need also be protected from doing things that we may not actually want to do but rather the illness is making us feel like we do.

Goodness for someone with no opinion on this I sure had a lot to say

I do think though that mental illness is an incredibly painful and scary thing to experience - never mind living with day in, day out and dare I say, I would rather be physically ill than mentally. I have had a few acute mental health crises during my life and they have honestly been horrific and will stay with me forever. I never forget the feeling of low I felt, and each time it takes me months to recover. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. So yes, I think that people should be able to end their life when confronted with that however they must ensure that that person has capacity to make that decision.

FAQs at

<www.camh.ca/en/camh-news-and-stories/maid-and-mental-illness-faqs>

This is my concern. How we perceive things changes over time. Smoking is a good example - only a few decades ago smoked in offices, classrooms etc. That seemed very normal but now seems crazy. I can easily see a future where people who have addiction issues, are homeless, etc are offered this as the ultimate solution…

I think this in my heart, mainly because of suicide survivors who then go onto be happy.
If people want to do it, they will often find a way so it isn't really necessary to assist them.
😔

I don’t agree with it in the main but to be honest some people are so traumatised that they unfortunately cannot be helped, try as you might, and sometimes, for their sake and their quality of life, the liberation of death might be a good thing.

I suffer with depressive episodes that come and go and it’s so tiring fighting it until it passes. It’s SO tiring. People say to me, ‘’it’ll pass hang on’’ and it does and I get a few weeks/ months of feeling ok and happy enough. However, it’s no way to live, just waiting for a period when you feel okay/happy because being miserable keeps coming back and it’s exhausting.

I don’t think I could bring myself to do assisted suicide, but at the same time I don’t care about death, the thought of dying in an accident doesn’t scare me at all, even now, when I’m not feeling too bad because I know that darkness will come back and I’ll have to fight again! Not everyone lacks capacity when mentally Ill.

Place marking.
😬

If people want to do it, they will often find a way so it isn't really necessary to assist them.
Not necessary to help them? Why not? Because they've made the decision to end their life, that they don't deserve a more dignified way to go?

Like my Dad who had to suffocate to death on exhaust fumes? Or the countless people my husband has had to retrieve what's left of their bodies, after they've jumped in front of a train?

Why shouldn't people have assistance, after a thorough assessment?

People dying by suicide is a horrific way to go, and if you have never found a body after an act like that, that's a massive trauma to an innocent person.

It's not the same, at all.

Imagine spending your childhood through to adulthood, knowing your Dad was going to kill himself. Imagine living a life of apprehension everytime he was late from work, or when he took off during the really bad times, all that while, thinking, is this the time? Is this the day the police are knocking to tell me, he's been successful this time and they've found his body?

It would have been completely different for my family and I. Dad would have had a dignified death, and my life before and after, would have been a lot better to manage.

I hadn’t heard about this and I personally find it disturbing. I don’t think anyone suffering with a mental illness is of ‘sound mound’, that’s oxymoronic. If you are mentally ill, being suicidal may be part of the illness but it doesn’t mean that is something you should follow through with. You’re sick but not beyond saving.

Suicide is a permanent ‘cure’ for a temporary illness. Sure, some mental illnesses are lifelong but manageable with the right care. It goes beyond therapy and medication, you do have to implement self help sometimes too. I don’t think suicide is ever the solution in this instance.

I meant sound mind not mound, obviously. Tired.

Oh gosh, this is such a contentious issue. It is a huge concern that people who don’t have capacity could be coerced, or allowed, to make an irreversible decision.

However, I very desperately hope that euthanasia will be an option for me should I ever be in a position that I might need it. I’m a fit and healthy person in my thirties. I love life and have never had a suicidal thought…but I seriously fear ending up in a position where I didn’t have a choice to end my life peacefully and with dignity. I have watched several loved ones die over a prolonged period of time; some in pain and some in confusion or distress.

I’d happily create a legal document now, whilst I’m fit and well and of sound mind, to authorise euthanasia to be performed on me should I lose capacity to make such a decision. Surely we all deserve autonomy over our own lives, even if it’s a decision that makes others uncomfortable?

The thing is, mental illness can fluctuate. I myself have severe OCD since i was 5, depression and PTSD from my mid-late teens.
10 years ago i was desperate to die, like a zombie in a world of never ending pain, i couldn't function, needed a full time carer. All i thought about was suicide how much i wished i was dead, i was crying in pure dispair, physical and mental pain almost 24/7. I would have jumped at the chance of medically assisted suicide where i wouldn't suffer or "fail" the attempt and be left with even more illness.Those bad patches can last weeks, months, sadly even years at a time, but you do get better periods too. I still need a carer, i still have physical disability, i have the same OCD and PTSD triggers, and still cannot work. BUT, i am content/happy with the good parts of my life, and i absolutely do NOT want to die! I am picturing the best future i've ever felt possible, and the thought of medically assisted suicide for myself right now horrifies me. I am very aware i could spiral back to the point i was at 10 years ago at any time, and its terrifying, but i don't think it should be anything other than an absolute last resort.

We need actual, functional, mental health support, intensive treatments and specialist inpatient centres with 24/7 care and support. Reasearch into better drug therapy regimens etc. I've been in the mental health system for almost 20 years now, and it has always been as shockingly underfunded and understaffed with months/years long wait lists, as the current NHS crisis for physical illness/dentistry etc. It's an area of healthcare thats been chronically failing patients which leaves them desperate enough to see assisted suicide as a vaild "treatment" option.