To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

[janef001]

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

Ok does this quote not ring any alarm bells?

’In that first year, a little over 1,000 people received an assisted death, a number that has grown every year since. In 2021, the most recent figures available, there were 10,064 Maid cases, accounting for 3.3% of all deaths in Canada.’

10000 people.

From same bbc article.

This was a commuity case worker, not a health care professional or MAiD case worker. A social services case worker who was unhappy and said nasty things to this clients.

Almost every one of those people would have died in a very short time frame without MAiD. They just died hours, days or weeks sooner and in less pain and suffering and with more control over their deaths.

Are you sure? I thought it was for those the disabled not just terminally ill.

Hmm I don't know how I feel about assisted suicide for mental health issues, although I suppose if they will never get better then I could understand.
I do think we should make assisted suicide legal in proper facilities. People should have the right to choose when they want to die and be able to choose a peaceful method to do so, with everything in place.

Haven’t read the thread. replying to your post on gut feeling.

Many physical illnesses are not curable and in those cases I fully support euthanasia.

I don’t know though, if there are incurable mental illnesses? There will no doubt be far wiser posters than I. My feeling though is most can maybe be turned around?

I believe that anyone of sound mind should be able to choose to end their own lives safely and peacefully.

I believe society has a responsibility to make this possible and affordable.

My life and my body is mine and nobody else's.

Also from the guardian:

‘After pleading unsuccessfully for affordable housing to help ease her chronic health condition, a Canadian woman ended her life in February under the country’s assisted-suicide laws. Another woman, suffering from the same condition and also living on disability payments, has nearly reached final approval to end her life.’

What Canada is doing here is not defensible. I’m not against assisted dying across the board. But come on!!

They expanded it to include the disabled with a grievious and irremedial illness a year ago but very very few of the deaths were from that pathway (219). The rest had terminal illnesses and foreseeable deaths. Average age was 76 and over 80% were receiving palliative care for their terminal illness.

Suicide by yourself is very very difficult. I know because I've tried it several times and failed. Personally I'd prefer to be helped to do it in a peaceful and painless way and be sure i wasn't going to wake up paralysed or with half my face shot off or whatever.

I stay alive for my sons but if anyone was going through the amount of pain physically that I do mentally I think there would be a great deal more sympathy and understanding of their desire to die. I am not going to do it now, but at some point when (perhaps) my adult children can understand that I want to end my pain now, I very much hope that this option will be available to me. In fact I have already done some research on it and from the UK people who can afford it can already travel to Switzerland or Belgium to do this. So in this country the middle class and above already have the option if they really want it.
It's true that we should invest in treatments and support for the mentally ill but after almost 40 years of miseryI can tell you as a fact that this is never, ever going to happen now. We have an ageing population and numerous global crises coming. I'm 50 now and became depressed at the age of 11; multiple diagnoses and ineffective treatments later, I'm now unable to work or often, leave the house. I get nothing from the health service but platitudes and passive aggression (after my last suicide attempt I was told there was nothing that could be done for me and discharged back to my GP immediately. The last time I rang the crisis line I got told to have a cup of chamomile tea after I'd been awake for 68 hours highly agitated and suicidal. ETc.)

There really is no help out there for people like us, it's going to get worse in the next few deacdes for sure- and the least we can ask for is the choice to end our lives peacefully.

The government might use the availability of euthanasia to kill unwanted people off as some posters on here worry- or it might do what it already does, which is just let them die, through poverty and neglect and lack of healthcare. Come 2040, that will be happening to more people than most of you reading this can bear to imagine. You might then find you want to avail yourself of state euthanasia yourself, although by then it will be the paying option. Dying on the street will be free, just as it is now.

Sorry this is super dark, but I am a long term suicidal depressive after all!

I am fully in favour of assisted dying. But not this.

Health services, particularly MH services, particularly youth MH services are underfunded and unavailable across the board. Until that has been resolved, the answer isn't state sanctioned culling of untreated people with MH issues. It's almost eugenics.

You need to have mental capacity to make such decisions so I don't agree with it unless they had capacity assessments regularly over a long period of time.

There is nothing that indicates MAiD will lead to a "state sanctioned culling of people with MH issues".

Except that MH services are utterly shit so it's not about compassion and ethics.

Probably the only thing I agree with Canada on.

I certainly don't agree with Men being put in women's prisons or male crimes being assigned as female crimes because they have decided they are women.
I wasn't onboard with their draconian covid measures
BUT this is one area I totally agree. No-one should be forced to go on living if they don't want to just to appease someone else's conscience.

Some people get depressed, get treatment and get better - great.

Others try treatment after treatment and get no where. They are actually depressed and suicidal for years and years. At best, treatment leaves them lethargic and uncaring and preferring to be dead OR inactive depression, not enjoying any aspect of life, feeling anxious and distraught and unable to comprehend a world that thinks them continuing to suffer is a good thing.

Suicide isn't a criminal act and people should (with some safeguards) be allowed to make that choice and go with dignity.

How can it be right that we don't allow animals suffer but those with cognition HAVE to continue to suffer to appease someone else

I'm very glad I didn't have this option when I was severely depressed.

I agree with assisted suicide, even those with mental illness.

Having grown up with a Dad who was mentally unwell and just wanted to die (he did from a very young age), eventually he got his wish, despite us trying everything we possibly could.

Shame he had to suffocate to death, by sticking a hose pipe from the exhaust through the car window, because some people thought they knew better than he did.

We should follow Canada, and let people decide what they want.

There absolutely are incurable mental health conditions, for the poster who asked above. Most, apart from episodic depression or anxiety, can only be managed and cannot be cured. Medication can have seriously disruptive side effects, or (what happened to me) medication which works initially becomes ineffective over time. Also, no medication is fully effective with most being effective at a very low level indeed, eg SSRIs are effective at only 10 per cent over placebo.

Well it sure is an ethical dilemma.

Maybe for some cases it would be beneficial. My Nan suffered from severe psychosis from the ages of 18-80. I mean truly, terrifying periods of persecutory psychosis whereby she was absolutely tortured by horrific and shameful voices. Many years spent in hospital unsuccessfully. A truly terrifying existence and reality. Her quality of life was obviously very poor. Maybe she could have been brought to peace earlier?

So one rogue worker means that you need to change everything?

Why don't we sack all policemen because one was a rapist?

But rape is illegal. In Canada pressuring someone to commit suicide is not.

For a start.

globalnews.ca/news/9332967/canadian-youth-mental-health-access-report/

I understand that committing suicide is very difficult. But unless someone is bedbound or in some other way extremely incapacitated, then that is for psychological reasons, not practical reasons. I can think of several absolutely foolproof methods just off the top of my head. I have for a very long time thought that people have the right to die - felt that it's a fundamental human right. But I don't think that government provided assisted dying can be done without seriously risking very serious abuse by government, relatives (eg who want to end caring responsibilities, or to inherit), and just random bullies (I'd classify the person who offered a Canadian woman in a wheelchair assisted dying because their organisation didn't want to approve the funding of a stairlift in that category). Even assisted dying for those who wish it and who are terminally ill may well prove to be the thin end of the wedge.

It's also misleading to think that a severely depressed person could just hop into the doctor's surgery in countries that allow euthanasia and say 'kill me now'. A full analysis would need to be undertaken to ensure that the person is in fact suffering from untreatable and persistent mental health issues. The doctor I consulted with in Belgium was very clear that he would take no action whatever until he had seen a patient's full medical history and had several consultations with them as the law in Belgium requires. Canada will have something similar. Of course, anyone from the UK using a Belgian doctor for euthanasia will need to pay for all this and it would be extremely expensive.

No I have had very severe depression needing inpatient treatment and to be honest I'm happy to be alive but when I'm unwell I might say I'm not. It's dangerous it's annoying because I back assisted dying we keep people alive far too long in appalling conditions (I'm talking incurable progressive disease ) and I know I want to be given a painless death but this is the slippery slope people use as a reason to keep it banned.

Except random family members and rogue case workers have no power or control to move someone through the process. The individual has to apply, has to go through assessments, has to get letters of support from health care professionals, has to jump through many hoops, meet criteria, and continue to express an ongoing desire for MAiD. It isn't a quick or easy process (barring an imminent death) and it isn't a process that can be started or continued by anyone other than the indivudal requesting it. They also have to be competent throughout.