To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

[janef001]

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

I have to say I agree with this. Mental illness can be torture. Mine has been ongoing since the age of 19 and I'm now 41. I don't believe I will ever be at peace and some close friends of mine once said to my ex they think I will die by suicide. Not a nice thought or thing to say but I didn't disagree :(
I don't think it should be on a whim, certainly not. But people who have a long and traumatic history of depression/mental illness, why shouldn't they have that choice? I am far from incapable of making a decision, I am fully sane and sound of mind. In the right circumstances I agree that it could be, if not a good thing, but the right thing. Death by suicide is unpleasant and those who choose to do it for the most part I would imagine would not do it lightly.

The clue is in the word "terminal". The risk of the process being abused is obviously far far lower where someone only has a maximum of 6 months to live. The OP's post is an example of how quickly people can move from "life is sacred" to "the government can legitimately save money on healthcare by legalising and encouraging euthanasia."
The next move - saving money on social care by legalising and encouraging the euthanasia of healthy elderly people.
This is why I am against any form of legalised euthanasia.

I can understand where you are .coming from ,when I was a mental.health nurse ,I worked with a lot of people whose mental illness never really got stable and they were in and out of hospital
I think it would have to be a case by case basis ,it's such complex area it can't really be compared to physical illness.

Attempting suicide is legal.

@x2boys thank you for replying to my comment. Yes I agree it would have to be on a case by case basis, and not a decision to be taken lightly. Mental illness has been absolute torture for me, and has taken so much of my life away already. For me it's not about living in the here and now with these disorders, it's the prospect of living through this agony for the rest of my life. It's been such a long long time. I can't escape it. It's always there and even if I get to a better place it will always engulf me again. I am getting support and help but I have to say my heart lifted when I saw the title of this post, even though I don't live in Canada! I agree with assisted euthanasia for people who are severely unwell with other, physical illnesses as well. Why shouldn't we have this choice. X

Because it is open to abuse, as we are already seeing in Canada. I have great sympathy for people who are suffering with extreme physical or mental illness, particularly when they are not physically able to commit suicide. But I think that the result will be to push lots of people into premature death that they do not actually genuinely want.

I think that there are extreme scenarios in which I could support this. But it is abhorrent that assisted dying is an option when proper, effective, fully funded and researched treatment and identification and addressing of root/complex causes (eg poverty) is not!

This kind of case I absolutely agree with.

I have a family member with a similar story. Has tried everything - as you say, including ECT and ketamine infusions and microdosing and inpatient stays of up to a year with intensive psychiatric care, to pay for which they sold their home - and it hasn't worked.

It's chronic and disabling. If they told me they were opting for MAID I would be heartbroken for myself, but not for them. The same way you feel when someone who has been terminally ill passes and is finally not fighting all the time. They are, as they describe it, terminally mentally ill and it will kill them eventually because they will keep trying - except nobody around them, including medics, is allowed to accept this and instead have to keep trying with sections and medical help after attempts to keep them alive. Which we wouldn't do to someone physically terminally ill.

I was depressed and suicidal as a teenager and my early 20s and I always disagreed with the professionals that told me it was irrational. To me ending your life when you're depressed is totally rational, continuing a miserable existence seems more irrational to me. I still think this even though I am no longer suicidal. It's my life I'll do what I want with it including decide when it ends.

If in 2018 I had been given the chance to end my life I’d have taken it. 28 years of MH issues and just wanted it over. Just 4 years later and I’m a new woman.
I can see how controversial it is.

@DownInTheDumpster I completely agree with you!

You're free to do that. Attempting suicide used to be illegal, but has been legal for a long time now.
Assisting suicide / euthanasia is a different issue. You are bringing the state into it.

In my opinion, any adult who has capacity and wishes to end their life should be allowed to have assisted suicide. I don't understand why we seek to deny people a basic right, ie to choose the time and place of their own death.

But someone who is "just" depressed do have capacity to end their own life. They can do it in many ways, any way they want. Why involve other people and/or the government and doctors and nurses in that case then?

This is just so bleak. State assisted suicide.

It is an ongoing discussion right now. MAiD was supposed to be expanded to include mental illness as a sole cause as of March 2023 but that has now been delayed. There are still a lot of questions and complexities and another report is expected in about a month.

Canada expanded MAiD to those without a foreseeable death more than a year ago so there is some data already and it is a very small number so far who get approved and choose to go through with it.

I live in Canada and am glad that this will be an option to me when I'm older.

I wish I lived in Canada too. The UK is so behind every other country.

YANBU, although I don’t see why any restrictions need to be in place, if someone wants to end their life and needs or wants assistance to do so they should be able to.

There should be the obvious safeguards in terms of coercion but outside of that I don’t see why people even need to tick ‘bah enough health or MH’ boxes

But it is difficult and messy to commit suicide. Why can't I die how I want to die?

You can carry on living.

Excerpt from bbc article about Canada’s assisted dying program:

‘Then last autumn, authorities launched an investigation after at least four veterans were prompted to consider Maid by a Veterans Affairs case worker, who now no longer works for the department. In one instance, veteran and paralympian Christine Gauthier said she was offered the option by the employee after she asked for a wheelchair ramp to be installed in her home.’

doesn’t seem so progressive now right?

If the illness does not have a foreseeable death, the second pathway is when the illness is considered by at least two health care professionals to be grievous and irremediable. To meet this definition it must be a serious illness that is incurable, the individual must be in an advanced state of irreversible decline, and the illness / disability / decline must cause intolerable physical or psychological suffering that can not be relieved.

There is an application and approval process, a waiting period, and also many safeguards in place. It isn't just that anyone with a mental illness will be able to just pop over and access MAiD during a bad episode of mental illness.

I am torn on this. When I have been very mentally unwell, suicide seemed very rational to me, even though everyone around me was disagreeing with that.
But then some people are just always in that state, so I can understand why they would go for this as an option.
Involving medics means there is an element of control, and as grim as it sounds... it wont be like when someone takes the matter into their own hands, leaving this world in pain and possibly leaving a body for loved ones to find in an awful state.
I agree with PP who said that euthanasia should never be offered as a solution. That is a slippery slope to go down.

So one rogue worker means that you need to change everything?

Why don't we sack all policemen because one was a rapist?

This was a case worker - not someone actually involved at all in the MAiD process. Basically the case worker got upset and put this in a letter to people that he thought were expecting him to be a magician and produce the resources they wanted. This was a disgruntled case worker with no direct ties to MAiD in any way. And action was taken against him as his job does not entail advising anyone on MAiD.