To not get the controversy over Canada expanding assisted dying for mental illness?

[janef001]

I’ve been reading online and watching videos regarding Canada expanding MAID for those with incurable mental illnesses in March of this year. It’s been getting a lot of backlash.

I understand that a lot of mental illnesses can cloud someones judgement but does that really make them inherently irrational? In almost every other case, an adult with depression/bipolar/schizophrenia would be considered competent in other aspects of life when it comes to signing a contract, purchasing a home. If they were to get in trouble with the criminal justice system, they'd be seldom shown any leniency and considered as responsible as someone without mental illness.
In an ideal world, mental disorders would be properly treated so that people wouldn’t resort to dying but the public resources (therapists, psychiatrists) are not easily accessible. Many meds prescribed also take too long to work, don’t work much/at all, or have unpleasant side effects.

It seems fair to allow death in certain cases even if the mental illness might not be terminal itself.

If this is brought in for terminally ill people, then the population will get used to the idea. The scheme will then be extended. And extended.

I haven’t read the thread but having had an ex boyfriend who is one, my very thought is of the First Nations Peoples of Canada, who have increased poor health, addiction issues and are more likely to be brought up and live in straitened circumstances and therefore it doesn’t seem too far of a reach to wonder if they’d be over represented in those seeking MAID. I’d very much like to see the numbers on that.

Seems like it’s a very final way of reducing their healthcare budget tbh.

Canada is an authoritarian shit show dressed up in progressive fancy dress, led by a sociopath with good hair.

No, suicide is difficult for practical as well as psychological reasons. Have you ever tried to get hold of a gun in the UK? Ever tried overdosing? I have tried both, and failed multiple times. Only 1 in 32 attempted suicides by overdose is successful. Suicide rates are much higher in countries where guns are more easily available. Maybe I should have tried hanging myself, but that was one fear I couldn't get over- the thought of living paralysed after breaking my own neck. Nope.

I often think that those who oppose assisted dying will change their minds only when they are in enough pain, physical or mental, to understand what it's really like. Most people can only really understand physical pain but as we have an ageing population, an awful lot more people will be feeling like this per head of population in the next decades and the movement will be unstoppable. Plus, anyone who can save the money up will be able to go to a country where they can obtain euthanasia anyway.

There will of course be abuse, humans will abuse anything. The so called civilised world already broadly doesn't give a shit about the long-term mentally ill, and it's heading that way with the physically ill, so euthanasia on demand is imho pretty likely by 2050, especially since by then Western civilisations really will be crumbling (this is just the beginning of the decline, unfortunately).

I'm not going to spell those methods out for you. And if I did, MN would delete my post. It's not rocket science.

So far almost everyone who has died of MAiD has been very close to death already, so it isn't saving much. In July the report on 2022 will be released so that will be another year of data to consider.

And only the person can initiate the process - this can't be done to someone.

The Netherlands have had PAD (physician aided death) for those with psychiatric suffering since the 1990s. There must be information and data. Is it similar to Canada?

i don’t know enough about this to have an opinion yet.

People can be bullied and pressurised and guilt tripped.

If they feel bullied, pressured or guilt tripped into dying, then suicide would be a much easier option. There is a lot of time and assessments and paperwork involved with MAiD. If your family / others want you dead and you agree - I doubt many would go through the MAiD process, they would just off themselves.

I would put money on First Nations peoples being overrepresented. Social deprivation and exclusion are huge reasons for long term untreatable mental illness. As we all surely know by now, children born into socially excluded and deprived populations are far more vulnerable to abuse and neglect, and abuse and neglect are THE fundamental reasons for long-term untreatable mental suffering. And then of course it becomes a cost saving measure to allow those who are suffering the most an easy opt-out. I absolutely agree that the last bit is vile if it is a calculated attempt to cut Canadian benefit and healthcare bills, which it probably is.

Women will be overrepresented too as they suffer depression at twice the rate of men, but we can hardly expect that to improve in the future. It is great that people still want to try though (I'm too ill now but used to be a feminist firebrand when I had the energy).

This is completely contrary to what we've been told by another poster who has experience of attempting suicide and feels strongly that assisted dying would be a much easier option.

Sorry, that was in response to musinginmidlife.
There's a little bit of research here:
post.parliament.uk/research-briefings/post-pb-0047/#

Userwoozer, that is probably because different people- even (gasp) different mentally ill people- have different opinions.

Thanks for refusing to spell out to me how to kill myself efficiently, btw. Pmsl. Doing that to someone who's already tried and failed several times just to prove a point is a really special kind of [wo]mansplaining.

some may find this an interesting article concerning PAD for psychiatric disorders in The Netherlands.I haven’t read it all.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9251055/

Reading quite a few of the posts on here, eg Userwoozer's, confirms my opinion that its actually the people who care least about actual people and suffering, who are the most concerned to preserve life in all circumstances and talk a lot about people being 'bullied' and 'guilt-tripped' into killing themselves. I'm not quite sure why this is- probably they are afraid for themselves for some reason? Those who have made subtler points regarding the eventual misuse of euthanasia by governments keen to cut healthcare and pension bills are more on the money. The legislation is going to expand, and the best safeguards will be via specific medical end-of-life training, but there's going to be abuse, full stop. It's also abusive to decree that people should die in pain regardless of circumstances because someone else is worried about being 'bullied' into euthanasia.

This.
And then it's one of a variety of options.
And vulnerable people will be 'helped' to 'choose' this option. Kind of like people could be pressured to include someone in their wills.

It could help some people but it will definitely have people dying who otherwise could live happy but inconvenient lives.

I don't disagree atall for people like your self ,who.are i n sound mind i have seen so many people destroyed by mental illness
I
I dI worry however for some peop!e whose illnesses fluctuate and many people's do n
How can we be certain they actually want to do this ?

it really does need to.be case by casev

Exactly. A lot of MH fluctuates. I have a lovely friend with bipolar, who even in her darkest times knows that she will eventually come out of it. But then there are those who feel like it will never end, even though it does.
Is why medical history needs to be taken. It is not a case of feeling down and having assisted suicide. At least, I would hope not.

Physician assisted suicide has been legal in the Netherlands since 2002. That is 20 years of data that doesn't yet support the government seeing it as a way to cull the population, cut health care spending, or to abuse it for their own purposes.

Get back to us when your children and grandchildren are pressuring you to choose euthanasia quickly so they can get their hands on your property.

Compare access to MH services in Holland and Canada and you will soon see the issue. Plus Canada has a gaping wound of First Nations MH and trauma which must be addressed.

There is already a huge suicide epidemic going on.

Ironically I have become a lot more negative and mentally unwell after being given psychotropic drugs to help with a severe breakdown after a head injury and post concussion syndrome.

The antipsychotic drug that was prescribed off label for severe anxiety and insomnia during this time gave me a permanent and untreatable neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia that is horrible, and includes involuntary movements of my face, tongue, and most other body parts. Consequently having to live with this for the next 40 odd years doesn't fill me with much joy, surprisingly.

I would consider MAID if it was available. I know of several other people with these iatrogenic injuries like mine in Facebook support groups that have ended their lives in places like Switzerland, and the level of suffering mentally that accompanies these horrendous conditions means that people see assisted dying as their own control over a body that has been robbed of having control over by the medication designed to help them mentally.

I'm allowing these people their wishes to die if they wish to. If I didn't have children, I might be serious enough to think about it. Look up videos on YouTube about the movement disorders called akathisia, tardive dyskinesia, and tardive dystonia and I think you'll agree with me.

@musingsinmidlife it has increased significantly though

‘until 2010 only a few cases were reported yearly. However, since 2011 there has been a remarkable increase, with 115 cases being recorded in 2021 - the most recent year for which figures are available (2).’

We’ll because it’s not terminal.

This^^