To object to having to call a man accused of rape 'she' in a criminal court trial?

[Appalonia]

Firstly, the definition of rape is penetration by a penis without consent. Only men have a penis. This case makes a mockery of the law and the criminal justice process and is a gross victimisation of this victim?
www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/23259685.clydebank-court-hears-woman-raped-clydebank-home/?ref=twtrec

Madness. Unnecessary madness. I live in Scotland. It's losing the plot. As a light aside, in big chunks of Scotland, whatever class you are (if this is in any way relevant to anyone), we don't use he/she pronouns, our speech pattern is they/them. E.g. "Dave said he was in Glasgow on Tuesday"; "Well why did they say to me they were in Stirling?" or "My neighbour asked me if I could pick up her daughter after school on Tuesday and I had to say to them that I had an appointment". For non-Scottish people or the grammar particular, I realise this sounds like nails down a blackboard . . .

@Appalonia

Sorry but you're misrepresenting this. Here are the reasons she didn't get compensation:

'However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate, particularly due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present [at the protest] and the way she was filming.
"She was asked at different stages not to film but continued to do so.
"Another factor I have to take in to account is the Twitter post that has been submitted that was posted after the case had been brought to the attention of the police and there were criminal proceedings pending.
"It was foolish of her to post that tweet in the way that she did.
"It was notable that when I asked Ms Maclachlan to refer to Ms Wolf as 'she', she did so with bad grace - having asked her to do so she continued to refer to Ms Wolf as 'he' and 'him'".

So basically her antagonistic behaviour lead the to escalation of the incident to begin with. She filmed without permission, after being told repeatedly to stop. She deliberated undermined the legal proceedings by publishing about them online- jeopardising the defendants legal right to a fair trial and then in a court room she ignored the direction of a judge.

This isnt simply a matter of her being ineligible for compensation because she wouldn't use pronouns. That wouldn't be legally possible.

That's exactly it. I couldn't sit up there and lie, I'd rather be fined. And I'd make a point of saying why I was calling him he if I was asked.
It makes a mockery of the legal system and of the women who have been raped. How anyone could defend the victim having to call her male rapist she, is beyond me, but I'm sure there will be someone.

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious

she wasn't fined. She wasn't raped.

This page is just creating boogeymen scenarios now.

I would stoically refer to “The defendant sitting over there who has spent their whole life as a man with a penis and is now identified as a woman” and avoid using any pronoun at all.

If the NHS didn’t have to pay for it, chopping off his penis seems like a good plan to me.

Is it just me, but I think that there is something quite sinister and disturbing about a man, who has used his male penis to rape a woman, something only a man could do, then demanding he is a woman?

Rape is about power isn’t it, power to inflict harm in this case with an exclusively male power? And yet now he wants to present as a she, the victim’s sex and covet this as his own. It’s almost like it’s a continuation of the power play in court, with the courts and victim compelled to affirm this power.

Doesn’t it make you feel a bit like the Silence of the Lambs?

Absolutely agree. I couldn't lie, especially in court, if the person I was talking about was a man I would describe them as such.

To put women under pressure to do so in a rape trial is grotesque.

Fuck me. You would do mental gymnastics in court to avoid telling the truth with clarity.

This is interesting. I was banned from contacting the BBC for pointing this out.

I described it as state sponsored gas lighting of rape victims for them to describe Karen White as a woman and use she pronouns when the rape victim may be listening to the show. They were furious. I wonder if they'd do the same now?

Wow you're a piece of work aren't you . That's your only concern in this , jeez

This pronoun nonsense is ridiculous and needs to stop. It’s just being used as another stick to beat vulnerable and traumatised women with.

You bet that rapist is getting a little frisson every time he is referred to as she. Turning the courtroom into his wank bank. 😡

Nice attempt at backpedaling but the OP makes no such point.

Only men have penises, only men can penetrate without consent using a penis. Nobody should be prioritising the man's feelings in such a situation, especially considering men exploit the court system to intimidate the victims.

These are men, exploiting trans identities to attack women, just as they would exploit any opportunity against women.

i wonder how many rapists actually identify as women now.
It seems the script now, rape, court case and somewhere in the middle identify as women. It’s almost like…. Well I’ve not gotten away with it, may as well identify as a woman then I can rape some more when I get to a women’s prison.
I feel heartfelt sympathy for the victim here, ha I g to go through the trauma of a trail, and have everyone call her rapist a she, when it was a very male act of rape.

YANBU at all.
There have been cases of paedophiles being referred to as she as well, one fairly local to me - there was a big FB fight over pronouns for a convicted paedophile - the pronoun people completely ignoring the fact that this man had raped a child and focusing entirely on misgendering, and a pile on from TRAs following the calls of transphobia. Pretty sure it peaked an awful lot of people round here.

What also struck me is that the defendant says he is going to have surgery to remove his penis. But hasn’t actually had it yet. This could just be a tactic to get him either aquitted because how could a man who wants his penis removed be a rapist or also add to a claim to be sent to a woman’s prison if he is found guilty. Either way women lose.

YANBU

Yanbu

I think i walked find this worse tbh. I'm fortunate enough to not have been a victim of rape and all my dubious situations which I won't go into where it would now be considered assault but at the time I didnt know it was so I wasn't affected by it as much as I should be at the time, well I guess I was kinda used to men taking my body in ways I didnt always like . But I'm not sure id cope with anyone trying to take my mind, my thoughts and feelings and what I see with my own eyes from me.

This must be worse for the victims? I mean rapists are gonna rape. U dont expect anything else from.rapists.

But these guys, arent they meant to be the good guys? The ones there to help you. To get you some.kind.of justice ? The ones that should know better? I think I'd find it worse.

Eventually 50% of rapes will be committed by women and 50% by men. How do you suppose that will affect funding and resources? Suddenly there will be no need to worry about women’s safely on the streets as less males are raping. It’s just bloody common sense otherwise statistics and focus and funding will be screwed.

“i wonder how many rapists actually identify as women now”

Cross dressing is the biggest paraphilia, which often comes hand in hand with sex offences (a female ex prison officer wrote about this, but her article was banned from several platforms).

The recent census has confirmed that, going by prison data, TW are far more likely to be incarcerated for sex crimes than other men. See photo attached.

There is absolutely no evidence to back up TW being as safe as women to be around.

It is also very disturbing that it forces the victim to deny the reality of it, if he was actually a woman he could not have physically raped her. And if she was not actually a woman she could not have been raped. The whole trial is because of this biological reality.

@MiaMoor wow that’s pretty shocking. Have any media outlets picked this up?

This scenario was raised as one of the amendments put forward to the Gender Reform Bill in Scotland and they voted against it.
Against it! Measures to try and stop exactly this scenario as they now only need to live in their chosen gender for 12 weeks, there are no criteria as to what this means and no medical or professional advice is required.

But this is progressive?!

And I am even more staggered to see this www.rapecrisisscotland.org.uk/news/news/a-statement-from-scottish-civil-society-organisations-on-the-uk-governments-intervention-o/

But then again, rape crisis see no issue with a biological man at the helm of one of its services

I’m not sure. If it is, not widely.
A few years ago a feminist group did a FOI request and uncovered this, it was not believed so a media outlet (maybe the telegraph? Not sure!) checked again and found the figures were worse.

It absolutely should be written about. There is so much evidence to prove that teens should not be transitioning, that women should retain single sex spaces, that much of gender ideology is quietly dismantling safeguards for women and children, but those in positions of authority are totally captured and will not listen to it. If they are part of a bigger agenda.

Or they are, not if!

I read on another thread, and I hope the poster was mistaken, that once a rapist utters the magic words the prison service treats them as a woman. This includes risk assessments and offender treatment pathways, designed to cut reoffending, which aren't as effective on tw because they are men.

A chief of police stated that tw officers can carry out intimate searches of women. I expect this also applied to prison officers who are trans. Women prisoners who object to tw or, God forbid, misgender them can be punished. It can even affect their chances of parole.

There was recently a tw, jailed for paedophilia, who was put in a women's jail that has a mother and baby unit. He didn't even have a GRC. I believe he was eventually moved to a men's prison after he struck up a relationship with a woman who was described as young and extremely vulnerable.

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