To think menopause cannot be used as an excuse?

[Woodpeckerupatree]

Maybe this will be me in ten years’ time. Who knows? But my menopausal boss is driving me mad! There is so much at work to protect those going through the menopause, this policy, that policy etc. but what about us poor buggers working for someone who is menopausal? The constant forgetting things, forgetting she’s told us to do stuff, forgetting she’s told us not to do stuff and then being blamed for not doing whatever she remembers as right. It’s soul destroying. We used to get on well but now it’s like walking on egg shells. I can’t take much more! There’s also the coming in late constantly because she says she can’t sleep, leaving me and other underlings to cover above our grade… I could find another job but feel like I shouldn’t be forced out because of this!

The menopause policies in my workplace are really helpful. For instance we are able to work flexibly. Which means if night sweats for instance have led to a poor nights sleep you can start later and make the time up. If you need medical consultation to get the right HRT treatment for example this is covered by health care plan. Absences aren't immediately counted towards the permitted 3 absences in a rolling year. For me all of these things helped keep me in the workplace. If men went through this there would be much more on offer.

Totally agree.

@Remagirl

Yet another really nasty attack on other women. Why? FFS.

As if she can send a calendar invite to her boss saying "just booking in a meeting to discuss your menopause"?!

That would be entirely inappropriate and possibly would get OP in trouble with HR.

OP is not being nasty at all. Her manager is causing workplace issues and a hostile environment, and no she shouldn't get a pass on that because menopause is the reason! Really the manager's bosses should pick up on the issues and work with her to make adjustments. The same goes for any other medical issue or disability that causes difficulty at work, like ADHD and autism. You don't just get a free pass to make everyone around you miserable.

As for what OP can do, I'd suggest CYA measures. Put everything in writing, CC upper management when needed, follow-up on all instructions with written confirmation of the agreed upon plans.

This thread has made me so sad and so incredibly angry. Women attacking women re HRT. Seriously WTF. No one is denying it's an issue, but there is better understanding these days, better support, better GP knowledge. Better Davina programmes. And we know not all GP's are great, but if you arm yourself with NICE guidelines you are better equipped.

But to see women attack other women. Oh I've had it bad so therefore I hope you do too, you nasty. makes for very poor reading. to see women attack Other women in such a way, makes me very sad .

Shame on you.

There's a complete lack of any kind of compassion in your post, OP. Menopause is absolutely hell. I feel for your boss, frankly...

she regularly forgets things, and forgets who she’s told what, and this can cause a lot of confusion (we’re either told 3 times or not at all, and then told off for not being psychic). She tried to say she wasn’t forgetful!

mega YANBU
and NBU to get another job.
that would drive me batty.
this woman's health / cognition isn't supposed to be your problem.
I wouldn't exactly cover, more like try to accept the things I can't change.

I can only think, get things in writing, email after (a convo or meeting) in a way that happens to repeat everything you think was just agreed. "Hi everyone, I'm just writing this down because we covered off a lot and I want you all to correct me if I got any details wrong" and then it's back on her to say if decisions / details are wrong. You'll have a document trail of decisions, too.

As for coming in late, I think you'll have to suck that one up. At least she comes in at all.

Am also bored of all the menopause support workshops at work, too. Trying hard to avoid avoid avoid.

Until you've experienced it yourself you have no idea.

Unbelievable how many people think that one is a heartless bastard for not working overtime to pick up slack, be told off when it's not their fault and be stressed when it's not their fault.
I am pretty sure if any other condition was mentioned causing exactly same issues for kthers at work, OP would be told she is not unreasonable and should go to HR by absolute majority.

But no. What a heartless bastard wanting sustainable and normal working conditions and management. Tsk tsk OP, give your head a wobble (towards job ad portals)

One can be empathetic and also realise that the situation isn't acceptable.

I am very glad that menopause is getting the awareness it deserves but, just like any other condition that can affect behaviour, it is not reasonable to expect others to put up with continual negative behaviour towards them just because someone is going through the menopause. Effective management and support of menopause on the workplace is not about allowing women going through menopause to behave how they like to anyone in the workplace, it is about offering support and adjustments so that they can continue to work effectively.

The boss is clearly refusing to recognise the impact her situation is having on her direct reports and appears to be both concealing her negative behaviour from and able to actively control her behaviour in front of more senior colleagues. This is not okay.

Exactly @Eleganz! Not sure where I’ve been unsympathetic. She is aware she is acting out but seems to think the team will take her behaviour without consequence. That’s not me being unkind. Or bullying her. Or anything else. That’s me having self respect and putting a boundary in place, or at least trying to, hence the thread. It has changed our lovely workplace no end. I will start logging conversations as PP have suggested and go from there. Talking to her is inappropriate I think? And her boss is the big male boss, I have zero faith he’d understand or do anything constructive.

We have a menopause policy at work and I am supportive of it. I am in the age group so may need some understanding myself at some point.

But the OP's boss is being charming to the (no doubt male) bosses and horrible to her (female?) underlings. That is nothing to do with menopause.

And as I said above, if you are struggling, you put strategies in place to help yourself (and HR could also make suggestions and these could also be as an appendix to the policy). So for example, if you keep forgetting to do things, or what you've asked others to do, you write everything down. It's really not that hard!

I always apologise and take responsibility if Ive caused confusion. Dont know what else I can do at the moment that's more than ok, the OP's boss is denying she has a problem and turning on the charm for more senior staff.

I would agree that talking to her is inappropriate unless you have that type of relationship. I have great relationship with my LM but no way would I feel 1-1 would be appropriate in this case.

It's unfortunate situation, but you do have to take care of your own wellbeing as well.

It's a shame she isn't using some coping methods which I know quite a few use with memory issues such as rigorous note taking about who had which task, when etc. One of our colleagues was on long term sick due to her menopause and no one minded! It is what it is, but this situation is unhealthy.

Eleganz said it all well

Talking to her is inappropriate I think

I don't think it is. She needs to be called out on the fact that she is behaving differently to more senior male staff. That is nothing to do with menopause.

@wineandpjs Many of us have experienced menopause.

It still doesn't excuse someone being a bully. Or poor at their job. Capability needs to be started.

If you had a boss with any other medical condition on MH issue that prevented them for doing their job properly that too should be dealt with. Why not menopause?

I agree with Eleganz.

So, what are you going to do OP? @Woodpeckerupatree. Please do something proactive. Speak to your boss, HR. Something.

LOL

Just wait until it hits you, and then see what it's like. It's living hell.

Don’t let employees turn against employees OP.

Its the employers responsibility to have processes in place to manage a situation where an individual is struggling to perform their role (whether that’s due to ill health, change in personal circumstances etc).

Line managers should follow that process and look at, for example, making reasonable adjustments to a role for a temporary period, reduced working hours or flexible working or temporary additional labour.

Society is very good at making women turn against each other. Resist it.

Are we, as women, expected to allow menopausal women to treat us poorly because we too might one day a menopausal woman who treats other women poorly? Is that the cycle we want to fall into?

@dolor

Many of us already have. But what it didn't do was turn us into a bully. But if you think it's justification for treating others like shit, then you rock on.

meh. Stop making it into a female us sisters stick together vs. male them other enemy thing.

Simply,
"My boss is unpredictable & unpleasant due to their chronic illness. I know they didn't wish for it but I don't feel I can talk to them about how their illness is making my worklife intolerable, trying to do that would just blow up in my face. shall I just look for another job?"

That is the actual situation OP is in.

"... policies in my workplace are really helpful. For instance we are able to work flexibly. Which means if xxx led to a poor nights sleep you can start later and make the time up. If you need medical consultation to get the right .... treatment for example this is covered by health care plan. Absences aren't immediately counted towards the permitted 3 absences in a rolling year."

I don't understand why all of those policies shouldn't apply to most/all chronic health problems. Why only applied if the health condition = menopause?

I understand your point and partially agree.
BUT
I’ve always worked in a predominantly male environment. By the time they reach middle age most of my male colleagues have multiple health issues: diabetes, alcoholism, liver problems etc. I helps colleagues with those self inflicted conditions, why wouldn’t I help someone who is having a hard time with menopause?