To think menopause cannot be used as an excuse?

[Woodpeckerupatree]

Maybe this will be me in ten years’ time. Who knows? But my menopausal boss is driving me mad! There is so much at work to protect those going through the menopause, this policy, that policy etc. but what about us poor buggers working for someone who is menopausal? The constant forgetting things, forgetting she’s told us to do stuff, forgetting she’s told us not to do stuff and then being blamed for not doing whatever she remembers as right. It’s soul destroying. We used to get on well but now it’s like walking on egg shells. I can’t take much more! There’s also the coming in late constantly because she says she can’t sleep, leaving me and other underlings to cover above our grade… I could find another job but feel like I shouldn’t be forced out because of this!

It is a real problem for some women. It was for me: I was on my knees with insomnia and exhaustion. Thankfully it didn’t make me unpleasant to work with but I definitely suffered brain fog and I know my boss cut me some slack because of it.

Got HRT and things improved immensely. I knew I couldn’t continue as I was.

I wasn't Godzilla.

I did think quite regularly about ending my own life though because I was so miserable and anti depressants were having no effect because what I really needed was more oestrogen. Or something to stop me waking at 4am each morning and being wide awake for hours.

Some women sail through the menopause and there are clearly lots of those on this thread. Other women who find it hard and exceptionally challenging are grateful for people like "flint-eyed chancer" Davina McCall who speaks out about it and makes it less taboo.

It's not OK to tell people who are deep in PND that they need to just get on with it, pull themselves together and stop being a burden on everyone else. And it's not OK to tell women in the menopause years that they are making excuses.

So offensive.

Oh the irony of claiming the more talk of menopause will be used by men to beat women with a stick over while women are here beating some poor woman with a figurative stick because of her menopause symptoms.

ita clear that most respondents have either never been through peri/menopause or sailed through it.

The Boss shouldn’t be making peoples lives hell but the staff ought to have some kindness and compassion because one day it will be your turn and you can only keep your fingers crossed that you’re one of the lucky ones who go symptom free.

I'm going through the menopause now and it's not easy.

I absolutely think people going through it deserve compassion and I think sensible workplace policies etc are a good and progressive development.

But that doesn't stop me being bored stupid having to talk about the menopause whenever I go out socially with a group of women in the right age range. I have three or four friends who literally talk about very little else.

It has as someone else said upthread become a demographic specific buzzword: it's almost like a competitive thing to talk about your symptoms among people who ten years previously would have been talking about their lavish honeymoons or their children's progress learning to read. Just enough already I'm tired of hearing about HRT patches and night sweats every time I go for a drink with you.

I am happy to talk about people who are struggling and want advice or a shoulder to cry on but I find the idea that the menopause is the "thing" that people talk about when groups of women get together depressing and limiting.

And I do think that having to be hit over the head endlessly with conversations about how much the menopause is limiting our lives must at some level make men think "I always thought they were run by their hormones". I know people say the openness is a good thing and among women its good to have the support and at a societal level its good to socialise the issue. But I really don't see why sharing this with men is helpful. I'm damned if I'm giving them any more ammunition to tell me I'm incompetent than they already do. I would never talk to a man (apart from very occasionally my partner and my GP) about the menopause.

Often shitty things people do cannot explained by things they cannot help, but this doesn’t mean they should be excused.

For example, I have very poor mental health. Sometimes this means I can be a dick to people in various ways because of my mental health. My mental health explains why I have behaved like that (aka there’s a reason) however it doesn’t excuse it. My behaviour is still my own and it is my responsibility to take measures to not be dicks to people. It is not the responsibility of the people I have been a dick to to excuse my behaviour because of my mental health.

Your bosses behaviour is explained by her menopause. This does not excuse her behaviour, no one should walk on eggshells in the workplace because of how their boss behaves even you can understand why they behave like that!

Well having read the rest of the thread now, Im not a bully to my workers, far from it and they are very forgiving of me as I am of them, we work well together

But is not as simple as 'get HRT', my doctor has made it clear they're not going to do any blood tests for me as in their words 'if you're the right age and you get symptoms you're in peri menopause so theres nothing to test'.

So how do I work out what I need, what are my levels,, what HRT do I actually need, where do I get tested?

@HufflepuffRavenclaw - so what would your solution be? Should I carry on effectively carrying my boss? Becoming stressed myself by her incompetence? Letting service users down because I can’t cover everything she cocks up? I know she’s suffering, I know it’s hard, but there is so much support, sympathy and understanding for her and little for those who suffer because of her.

Well said! Agree fully.

Ahh typo!

Often shitty things people do can *be explained by things they cannot help but this does not mean they should be excused

YABU. I’m 58, it’s flippin awful. The other day I needed to send an email to a colleague, a colleague I’ve known for 5 years, I went to their wedding! I couldn’t remember his name.

You ask your GP for a prescription for body identical HRT, it's not up to you to determine what you need. Look up Dr Louise Newson for comprehensive info and advice, share it with your GP if they are poorly educated.

I agree, no excuses. Maybe years ago, but now Davina programme, people much more aware, so literally no excuses whatsoever.

OP, why don't you speak to her (do you have 1-1s?) and tell her gently that her moods and exhaustion and forgetfulness are impacting the whole team - and perhaps she should look to seek HRT? Would you or someone else on the team be close enough to her to have that chat?

Report to HR. She's not coping. Would it be any different if she was a bully, had MH issues, another medical condition? Or wasn't capable so had capability procedures? No.

As someone who is really struggling with the menopause and my mental and physical well-being, i hope you get a right fucking time of it .

@CeriB82
What support are you getting? What is your GP saying?

It's not a responsibility of the team under manager to stay late to catch up at work and have issues and stress caused by someone's condition. It's failure of upper management, which is questionable if they don't know.
I wouldn't tolerate it. It's one thing to forget things, it's another to tell people off for it and be all smiley for big bosses.

You should raise it with your boss's boss, and ask them to put things in place to support her and the rest of the team.

There isn't support and sympathy and understanding for her at all, judging from this thread which is full of people who dismiss menopausal women as malingering, and conned by Davina McCall, and just a bit pathetic really.

I thought we'd moved on from the "pull yourself together" nonsense. Obviously not.

God this is me! I feel dreadful, hot, sweaty, sore, shattered and just not myself. Foggy brain is awful too and I have a pretty complex job so I'm a nightmare!
I don't have a go at people though that's not acceptable ... the rest of it you have to understand it's just how it is for sone poor women

I vowed never to be the type of utterly nasty bitches I’d worked with when I hit the menopause (peri since 35, in - hopefully - the last few months of no period before I’m a year period free).

My experience with the menopause has been sodding awful, even in Sainsbury’s last night I had to shed 2 layers & fan myself with the local rag as the sweat pissed off me. And the mood swings from psychopathic rage to sobbing at everything for 15 years now isn’t exactly a walk in the park on the daily, but it’s never been an excuse to take it out on other people in the workplace or home.

If we’re completely honest here, there will always be those who will take advantage of others or believe that their needs trump everyone else’s, and I’ve been a victim to bullying bastards who use the menopause as an excuse for their behaviour & incompetence. It’s why I’m no longer, after decades, an all section Guider.

There’s just no need for it.

There’s oodles of information out there on how to help navigate the craptastic hellscape that is the menopause.

Maybe it’s because I’ve lived with a pain filled disability since childhood so I do look with a side eye at anyone taking the piss, but I do think some women think their behaviour is nullified by shouting ‘It’s not me, it’s the menopause’ to excuse poor behaviour.

And I regularly write virtual ‘First to shoot come the revolution lists in my head’. But what I don’t do is take out my pain/hot flushes/emotions/flooding on the people around me.

It’s not their fault I’m cracking on a bit & my hormones are haywire. Life’s hard enough without ripping off & shitting down the necks of others ‘because menopause’.

You know fuck all about me.
What's the problem? Don't you like women who can have hormones and do their job?

@bellac11 My GP said, exactly word for word, the same thing. Then added 'even if we did test, you already know you can't have HRT as you've had cancer, twice'....she acted like I was an idiot for even asking. I was 49 at the time.

Are you seriously suggesting that someone should go over their boss's head, to their boss's boss, and ask them to put in place mechanisms to support said boss because the woman is going through the menopause??

Have you ever worked in a workplace before?! Unbelievable!

Why can't this boss do it herself? You know, with the bosses that she's all smiles and respect towards when she can't be the same to her underlings?

Yes Ive been researching but the brush off I got from my doctor when I raised it initially, that Im in peri, doesnt give me hope that it would be taken seriously

I also dont want to replace hormones that Ive lost which may have been the cause of my migraines for decades, my migraines have vanished since Ive entered peri so I want proper tests done to determine what my levels are. I dont want my migraines to come back

If your manager is being unfair and unreasonable you should keep records and evidence and raise it as a grievance with her line manager. It is their job to assess if her performance is satisfactory, if her health requires adjustments to be made, or if she lacks capacity for the role, and act accordingly. Its not your place to draw conclusions about the cause of her behaviour. Your only concern is whether you have objective cause to complain about her management of you.

While of course there should be understanding of the OPs boss it is not acceptable to have an ongoing situation where others in the team are suffering as a result. Having to pull together when someone is off work sick or for a specific reason is easier to deal with because it is usually a temporary thing. This seems to be more long term and it is unfair to expect others to just pick up the slack.