Is it time the parents were punished as well when their teenagers murder people.

[dottypotter]

A youth has been found guilty today of stabbing a 53 year old man outside a supermarket in Redditch. Ian Kirwin.
The teenage gang had gone out looking for trouble and stabbed this man after he challenged them about their bad behaviour in a supermarket toilet where they had urinated on the floor and banged loudly on his cubicle door.
When is this thuggish and horrible behaviour going to end?

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
How can it be nothing to do with them when their offspring are out with knives?
Does anything ever happen to parents of these teenagers?
What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?

Aren't they bloody embarrassed that they have raised little shits?
Boils my piss. Nothing ever changes.
You can't even name the teenagers, everything's on the yobbos side?
Isn't it time we asked about the parents and held them partly responsible.
How will it change otherwise?

Where would you stop OP? Is it just the parents of teens who stab someone to death who should be named and shamed and put in sackcloth and ashes? What about teens taking drugs, even the nice middle class ones? All illegal drugs are built on an empire of murder.
There is a serious problem with teenagers having no fear of any one. Yes it was ever thus to a degree but it does seem that many parents don’t accept their child can do any wrong. However your suggestion is absolutely crazy, without basis in logic. According to your classification of these children as feral and their parents as feckless, why would the feckless care if they were named and shamed? And who wants an apology when someone has been forced to give it?
As others have said you clearly have no idea what some parents have through with their wayward teens, you have no idea what they have already tried. You seem v limited in your thinking which is steeped in classism. If you are so concerned about the scourge of out of control teens why don’t you volunteer w a scheme for vulnerable youth? Or did you just want to come on here to whip up outrage?

Oh it didn’t take long did it. It’s not my fault it’s the wicked government. 🙄
When are people going to take some personal responsibility instead of sitting there like a cuckoo in a nest expecting everyone else to sort things out.

I can see your point.

It's not always reasonable to blame the parents in cases where their child has committed a crime. There are many factors at play-mental health, addiction issues, getting in with the wrong crowd-and believe it or not-some children are just born bad and for all the will in the world-you can't always fix that.

Of course there are times when you can point to the parents and say, 'Yep, that's why it happened,' because of clear links to abuse or neglect in the home. Abuse could be abuse directly linked to the child or witnessed abuse. Neglect could also be construed as a failure to teach the child how to behave and right and wrong.

It'd be far too difficult to prove all of that and that it led to the criminal behaviour, though. I do, however, think it is time for some parents to take accountability for their children and their behaviour. For example, I think many people know of a child who is a known bully/thug and the parent refuses to deal with it. Or just brushes off complaints with 'Kids being kids,' or pretending their child is a saint and how dare anyone question them and their parenting? It's that kind of parenting that ultimately leads to major issues down the road as they refuse to hold their children and themselves to account.

I don't think it would help at all.

Parents who don't give a shit would continue to not give a shit.

Parents who do give a shit would presumably already have been trying to get their child in line.

It's too simplistic to say punish the parent. Many kids are from awful backgrounds, some will be foster/adopted kids who have suffered trauma and haven't had the right support along the way, some will just be shitbags with run-ragged parents.

What punishment do you propose?

Often times people with a tearaway child have other children who aren't. How do we ensure the other children don't suffer as a consequence of parental punishment.

Punishing families for one members crimes is what they do in North Korea, and we all know how successful that country is with cheerful happy chubby people who never want to leave

I have a feral 15 year old, she has gone out with a knife and held one to me, I have called the police straight away, I am trying my fucking best, I have suicidal thoughts thinking about how my beautiful funny daughter has turned out. every day I pray I do t wake up. I have involved every agency possible and no one is helping me, and when we do get it she is refusing to engage.
the other week she beat the shit out of me in front of my 11 year old.
the police do fuck all

do you think I should be punished???

Punishing the parents may not be the answer but then neither is just struggling the shoulders and accepting that kids are growing up like this. Antisocial/criminal youth behaviour needs addrsssing. Serious social deprivation and poverty + lack of community and respect for authority/elders. These kids need to be given a community and sense of belonging as an alternative to the kind they’re getting from toxic gang type networking/violence. As a short term solution I think they need to be identified early and signed up for some kind of mandatory club/organisation/military service type thing. It’s not enough to simply “prevent” - you need to actively be providing these kids with positive role models and community.

I have observed this for decades.

Families so dysfunctional and feral, due to dysfunctional / feral parents, who have had, literally, hundreds of thousands of pounds of support pumped in to support them to zero positive effect.

That support includes ensuring maximised benefits are claimed, along with almost perpetual financial bailouts for energy/rent debts and 'emergency' funding for basic household items funded by the local authority. Additonal support with transporting kids to school, medical/psychiatric appts etc. due to disinterested parents, along with input by homemakers attempting to 'teach' adults how to budget, maintain a home, shopping and cook basic meals.

Whereas down the road, someone really struggling with a teen could, for the small investment of, say, £1000 worth of support a difference really could be effected.

I have spent decades despairing over this disparity .... the less you try, the more you receive.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but I definitely know where a massive problem exists.

Have you got kids?

Whilst there are certain family lifestyles that lead to children being neglected and their bad behaviour not addressed at home there are also children from
loving and caring family homes that do awful things.

It would be a legal minefield in knowing which parents to prosecute and which not to!

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
Oh, totally Miss Trunchbull dottypotter.
What we need is a divide & rule approach, where the criminal's entire family is made culpable for one rotten egg, & the whole lot of them clapped in irons.

This shouldn't clog up the prison system for too long, if sensible emergency laws are shoved through, bringing back capital punishment.

What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?
If they are under 12, they should be treated more leniently than their relatives. A day or two in the stocks should give them the short sharp shock they deserve - preferably in a public square, facing the executioner's block, so they get to see their family being made an example of. THAT should keep them on the straight & narrow!

Obviously, those minor children would then need to be made wards of state. Maybe they could be housed in discipline-led dormitories, away from GOOD children who still have families, & taught rudimentary skills. In that way we could engineer an entire class of citizens, grateful to accept pisspoor pay for horrible jobs, while thanking the state for allowing them to live.

How will it change otherwise?
Exactly.
It's time to create an "us & them" society where people who would never flout the law, even insane laws like punishing parents, executing entire families & enslaving minor children. How else are you going to be able to bask in your superiority & good fortune, unless you have an underclass to sneer down at?

Sensible policies for sensible people! And hurrah for the Blackshirts!

My friend is a fantastic engaged father, his wife is a wonderful mother. They have two children, the son is a delight. The daughter however is barely a step away from going completely off the rails.

The reason? She suffered severe trauma as a baby/toddler before my friend and his wife adopted her. She has many issues not least abandonment disorders and a personality disorder that they simply cannot get help with.

Not her fault, not their fault, she is the victim of her very early life. They have tied themselves in knots trying to help her but the help she needs isnt there. They have paid a fortune in private therapy, they have sought to get the help they were promised during the adoption process but that has never materialised. Not the social workers fault either, there simply are not enough people/places equipped to deal with the children out there who need help.

But yeah, blame the parents.....

www.gov.uk/government/statistics/youth-justice-statistics-2020-to-2021/youth-justice-statistics-2020-to-2021-accessible-version#proven-offences-by-children

Crime committed by children also reducing, although interestingly the length of sentence has increased too.

Where is your evidence for any of this?

@Eyerollcentral - oh no you need to go back at least 3 generations, that’s how the North Korean government does it.

You need to have a long, hard look at how you view those presumably less fortunate than yourself. And I don’t just mean in financial terms. I by chance watched a documentary that was on ITVX on broadmoor last night. Nearly every single man in there had experienced sexual abuse as a child.
I love the sterilisation line. Wonder what the middle class response will be if their IQs are insufficiently high enough to be granted a license to reproduce. Quite a few ignorant, violent, abusive people in the ranks of the middle class too. Or did you just mean wipe out the poors?

This.

I have always believed that if their behaviour is a result of blatant bad parenting (such as the Bulger killers and the Moors murderers where atrocious parenting begat atrocious killers) then those parents need to be held partially responsible.

Tell us about your children OP....

Sorry @Flapjackquack you are right, make granny and grandpa pay too. Dig up the dead if necessary

Agree with this. My sister is a psychopath. She had destroyed the interior of 2 cars by the age of 3 and got steadily worse and finally ended up in prison for GBH when she was about 18. My parents did nothing different with her compared to my youngest sister and me, but she was out of control from a very early age. She left school age 16 with no GCSEs whereas my sister and I both have degrees and post-graduate certificates.

Two words: absent fathers.

@dottypotter hasn't got a fucking clue Snowpatrolling. Please don't let the delusional ramblings of a smugly comfortable daily mail reader upset your evening.

I am so, so sorry to read how you are struggling, & sincerely hope that somebody, somewhere comes up with a solution for you. Even if that means a spell in Youth Offenders for your DD.

@Eyerollcentral - obviously, and then kill them again, just to make sure. That’ll learn them.