Is it time the parents were punished as well when their teenagers murder people.

[dottypotter]

A youth has been found guilty today of stabbing a 53 year old man outside a supermarket in Redditch. Ian Kirwin.
The teenage gang had gone out looking for trouble and stabbed this man after he challenged them about their bad behaviour in a supermarket toilet where they had urinated on the floor and banged loudly on his cubicle door.
When is this thuggish and horrible behaviour going to end?

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
How can it be nothing to do with them when their offspring are out with knives?
Does anything ever happen to parents of these teenagers?
What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?

Aren't they bloody embarrassed that they have raised little shits?
Boils my piss. Nothing ever changes.
You can't even name the teenagers, everything's on the yobbos side?
Isn't it time we asked about the parents and held them partly responsible.
How will it change otherwise?

Nice though that you ASSUME I'm speaking about lower classes when I'm not
No assumption necessary when you branded the people you were talking about as "feral shits" whose "families are getting thousands thrown at them".

says far more about what you really think regarding class
Conveniently ignoring the second part of my post, which makes the point that children of middle class & wealthy families ALSO offend.

However ... it's understandable that you misinterpreted my post as you must be reeling today, so please don't feel the need to respond. I hope your son finally gets the proper support he needs, & that you have real life support as well.

Sorry but I completely disagree. If they'd been raised right to begin with, then they never would've gone off the rails in the first place. You don't hear of privately educated children stealing cars, murdering people, burgling houses etc. I could be wrong but in my opinion, it's about being taught right from wrong, consequences to their actions and not having all their messes cleared up for them. I wholeheartedly believe those are the 3 morals that make the difference

You don't hear of privately educated children stealing cars, murdering people, burgling houses etc.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

What a starry eyed naive soul you are.

Yes you are wrong. Mental illness exists whether you believe it or not, personality disorders also exist whether you believe it or not. Privately educated people go on to be murderers and middle class people commit crime. Charles Bronson had a pretty middle class childhood from memory.

Where are you from? The pages of the Daily Mail?!

@Flapjackquack Jeremy Bamber was also privately educated.

People from privileged backgrounds commit fewer violent crimes, but not none. And of course they have the opportunity to commit a range of other types of crime (cough - Nadhim Zahawi).

No no no

And this comes from someone who works with offenders and deals with family visits.

No people are responsible for their own actions not others. There is a case however after a teen has been found guilty to consider if there was a crime committed by the parents which may have in part contributed to the initial crime.

Good people can have feral teens and feral parents can have good teens - people are complex and not linear.

My colleague was murdered by a teenager and it was his mum who insisted he report it and took him to Police. It's ridiculous to suggest a parent in these circumstances is any way liable for such dangerous behaviour. It's awful for the parents too who are usually doing their best.

You don't hear of privately educated children stealing cars

Are your ears working properly?

Sorry but I completely disagree. If they'd been raised right to begin with, then they never would've gone off the rails in the first place. You don't hear of privately educated children stealing cars, murdering people, burgling houses etc.

Hahahahahahahaha

This is a very silly idea.

Where would you draw the line? Would you punish the parent of an immature 23 year old who had, say, a reading age of 14?

Would you punish the grandparents as well, for example the serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer was brought up partly by his grandmother as well as his parents?

What about punishing the teachers, social workers, aunts, uncles, older friends, favourite social media influencers, basically anyone who could be said to have had an effect on the murderer's life?

Maybe it's just easier to try and convict the person who actually did the murder and just focus on that.

If it was just that simple....

As part of a parish council we did this. We had a real problem with free roaming teens that were engaging in antisocial behaviour that was escalating.

We built and provided a skate park. We worked really hard to get local businesses on board and got a wonderfully funded youth club with some truly great services. Walking distance from our three large local estates. Really passionate staff that related well with the local area. Tutoring outreach, mentor programs. funded trips out. We did everything from music mixing/DJ & hip hop classes to classic art. Any class you could think of we tried it, all for free - We did a breakfast club, lunch and learn at the weekends. Cooking, EA gaming. Archery, martial arts, sports and so on... we asked the kids what they wanted to see and we made it happen.

Only the MC kids attended. None of the disadvantaged families or the families that had come asking for these very services for their disenfranchised teens attended. When we polled them after the first year we were told that It was just another thing for them to plan when all of their headspace was taken up with just surviving.

There was no change in the local antisocial behaviour whatsoever and after two years the project died on the vine because the supporting businesses and communities didn't see any positive outcomes.

You don't hear of privately educated children stealing cars, murdering people, burgling houses etc.

Aw, bless.

Maybe not, but they do go and work in the city, launder money, embezzle funds, evade taxes.
Or they go into politics and ditto all of the above.

Sorry ickboo. Quoted wrong poster.

Very true. I never said it would be fair! Life isn't!

Rich people can afford to cover up their children’s crimes.

Look at the case of JonBenet Ramsay, allegedly killed by her older brother. The parents were rich and fabricated a hoax to blame a stranger, probably to protect their son. Money buys silence.

No because this would disproportionately affect women. I would bet there is a high % that come from single parent families. Mothers, doing their best, working hard with no help from the father. Who are you going to charge OP? A father who has never made any effort with his child or paid a penny to support them, who claims he died my even know them? Or the mother who is often helpless and threatened herself?

It's such a ridiculous suggestion.

YABU, that's what happens in North Korea, I don't think you want to use their example to model our Laws and reform policies, you would end up on the wrong side yourself at some point.

If all their peer group was punished it would be a much more successful way to stop violent behaviour than locking up parents according to this research ( replicated in countless articles) ….in fact lock up all teenagers- particularly boys🤦‍♀️

journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0963721412471347

Instead we should be talking to the parents to understand their situation and support them. For the majority of parents it must be devastating to know your child has done something terrible.

Bold suggestion but maybe we shouldn’t be focusing on punishment at all. Prison systems around the world that focus primarily on rehabilitation have much much lower reoffending rates. Not as fun as mob justice though I’m sure.

@endofthelinefinally - I was quoting another poster who said that. My comment was 'Aw bless'. The bloody quote thingy isn't working on my phone.

In cases like child murderers (as in young children who murder), I felt very strongly that the parents of the ten year olds who murdered Jamie Bulger should have been guilty of something (I don’t think they were taken to task but I may be wrong). The parenting by all accounts was dreadful. I know on a practical level it may not be possible because, as people say, how far back do you go, but it infuriates me when such atrocious parenting is given a pass.

Yours is an understandable reaction, but we already have laws and systems to hold parents to account for poor parenting. There are criminal offences such as child neglect and obviously the state can even step in and take your children. If those systems aren’t working then it will be because of things like underfunding and underreporting, not because we need a new offence of being-a-parent-while-your-child-does-something-horrible or whatever it would be.